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  #11  
Old 09-27-2017, 02:34 PM
TheHuckster TheHuckster is offline
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Originally Posted by s_stabeler View Post
which is probably, incidentally, the right way to handle it- gay people can be married, but there is no requirement that a religious ceremony- which is what church marriages are- be permitted by the religious authority. (I say that as someone who believes that most religions should allow religious gay marriages- however, I acknowledge that the requirements for a religious marriage are the religion's business- where I would protest is where a religion insists on their religious requirements being imposed on the temporal ( aka, non-religious) part of the marriage.)
I agree. I consider it a core tenet of freedom of religion. As a religious group, you can set whatever rules you want for your congregation.
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  #12  
Old 09-28-2017, 03:49 AM
Blue Ginger Blue Ginger is offline
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We actually have a pretty big wedding industry here and there are plenty of celebrants that are not tied into a religion. It is easy enough to find one that can do any kind of ceremony that you want.

What we have at the moment is religious people claiming that allowing gay marriage will mean that gay people can force a priest to marry them. This is bullshit. A priest can refuse to marry anyone they want. Some of the excuses including catholic/muslim, jewish/christian or in a number of cases different branches of christian.

My parents (in 1980) had issues because mum is roman catholic and dad was brought up Ukrainian orthodox. The Ukrainian priest kept refusing to give dad permission to marry outside of his church. The priest wanted mum to convert to Ukrainian orthodox, but dad isn't religious, so he didn't care and was happy to marry in the roman catholic church. It took mum threatening to have a court house wedding and telling all her relatives why, before the priest relented. (Background: mum's family are Irish catholic and the family is HUGE. Last reunion numbered around 2000 people, with nearly 5000 invites. A large number from her generation, and previous ones, went into various religious orders, including a close cousin that went to 'priest school' with the Ukrainian orthodox priest. Name dropping helps sometimes.)

Over the years, I have heard similar stories of priests refusing to marry a couple for a whole lot of reasons. One couple ended up with a court house wedding because she was a catholic Torres Straight Islander (native Australian from the far north) and he was Greek orthodox. Neither of their priests would agree to marry them.

My sister had huge issues in the lead up to her wedding because we couldn't find her baptism certificate and she wanted to be married in a church. My brother-in-law grew up non-religious. The dramas and issues they had were unreal. She had to fight for the church to actually go through their records to prove that she was baptised there. No church will marry any couple unless at least one has gone through the 'steps' of proving your faith. (There is a proper name for this but I'm an atheist and tuned out most of the religion classes.) They also had to agree that any kids from the union were going to be bought up in the religion. Luckily BIL didn't have to baptised or anything, because he drew the line at that.

Most Australians really don't care what, if any, religion people practice. But most of us draw the line when people try to force us to follow a religion or beliefs that we don't agree with. There are more atheists and non-religious at each census.

Having people say that it can be like marriage but not called marriage is too close to segregation. We all know how 'separate but equal' works in the real world.
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  #13  
Old 09-28-2017, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue Ginger View Post
What we have at the moment is religious people claiming that allowing gay marriage will mean that gay people can force a priest to marry them. This is bullshit.
I am legitimately having flashbacks these are literally the exact same arguments people were making here for years about why we shouldn't have it. I expect your next post to be something about how they are introducing Civil unions and asking "isn't that good enough?"
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The result is in. Australia voted 'YES"
  #14  
Old 11-15-2017, 01:43 AM
Blue Ginger Blue Ginger is offline
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Default The result is in. Australia voted 'YES"

So today is results day. The Yes side has won. (Doing the happy happy dance.)

Today I am feeling pretty proud of most of my country. 62% said Yes.

Here is the breakdown of how the various electorates voted. The areas with the highest no percentages are mostly country areas or areas that have a high percentage of new and second generation Australians, mostly from very religious and conservative countries.
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-1...ts-ssm/9145636

Although, I did just do the maths and it looks like a large chunk of the voting population did not send back their vote or placed a donkey vote. (Donkey votes are where the vote is purposely not countable. In this case, left blank, both boxes marked or not returned.)

Now to get our politicians to pull their fingers out of their backsides and actually pass the legislation. I have a few too many friends that want to get married and they want to start organising their weddings.
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  #15  
Old 11-15-2017, 10:30 PM
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Greenday Greenday is offline
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It's sad to me that we have to put stuff like this to a vote instead of just passing the laws and being done with it in the first place. It's such a cop out for the politicians to be like, "It's not our fault, people voted for it. Conservatives, still vote for me!"

When it comes to advancing society, it needs to just happen.
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Federal Parliament has passed Same Sex Marriage laws
  #16  
Old 12-07-2017, 01:59 PM
Blue Ginger Blue Ginger is offline
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Default Federal Parliament has passed Same Sex Marriage laws

So exciting today. I really though it would be months and months before Federal Parliament actually starting the ball rolling on the same sex marriage bills. But today they voted and the laws redefining marriage have passed.

I've been doing the happy happy dance with a few different friends today in person and over the phone. There is at least 3 weddings that will be happening in the next 12 months now.

So all the 'no' people who said that the world would end if gay people are allowed to marry can kiss my butt. The sun is still going to come up tomorrow, seagulls are still going to steal your fish & chips at the beach, water is still going to be wet and the wedding industry will get one hell of a boost.
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  #17  
Old 12-07-2017, 04:48 PM
mjr mjr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Ginger View Post
What we have at the moment is religious people claiming that allowing gay marriage will mean that gay people can force a priest to marry them. This is bullshit.
But can they force someone to make them a cake?
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  #18  
Old 12-07-2017, 07:03 PM
Daskinor Daskinor is offline
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Originally Posted by Blue Ginger View Post
So all the 'no' people who said that the world would end if gay people are allowed to marry can kiss my butt. The sun is still going to come up tomorrow, seagulls are still going to steal your fish & chips at the beach, water is still going to be wet and the wedding industry will get one hell of a boost.

“WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF YOU HADN'T SAVED HIM?
"Yes! The sun would have risen just the same, yes?"
NO
"Oh, come on. You can't expect me to believe that. It's an astronomical fact."
THE SUN WOULD NOT HAVE RISEN.
...
"Really? Then what would have happened, pray?"
A MERE BALL OF FLAMING GAS WOULD HAVE ILLUMINATED THE WORLD.”
― Terry Pratchett, Hogfather
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  #19  
Old 12-07-2017, 07:45 PM
s_stabeler s_stabeler is offline
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I think part of the problem is that it is comparatively petty- while the officiant could be seen as endorsing the marriage, the person baking the wedding cake isn't. As such, the religious grounds seem far more specious.
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  #20  
Old 12-07-2017, 11:58 PM
Blue Ginger Blue Ginger is offline
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There is always an appropriate Terry Pratchett quote, not matter what the situation is.

I have heard of places refusing to make rainbow cakes already. They then have to backflip when they find out the cake is for a kid's birthday. Because what kid doesn't want a rainbow unicorn cake with smarties inside?

I know of one bakery that won't do them, but they are a very traditional bakery and simply admitted that they didn't have the skills. Their trademark is cakes made like your grandma used to make. BUT they do have a partnership with a nearby bakery that they recommend. That place doesn't make cakes, they make delicious works of art.
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