Go Back   Fratching! > General > Religion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes

  #21  
Old 05-28-2015, 09:10 AM
Barracuda Barracuda is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 33
Default

Indeed. It also says that works without faith are also dead. For what it's worth, Catholic and Protestant theologians have been struggling with this one for centuries. The verses in the Bible are pretty clear, I think--that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe that God raised Him from the dead, that you will be saved. One could also argue that all sins are equally bad in God's eyes, and all deserve death ("For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 6:23 "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23 "18So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. 19For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. 20The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?" Romans 5:19-6:2)

My advice would be to read the epistles, especially Romans. It deals with a lot of these questions. C.S. Lewis, quite possibly the most brilliant theologian of the 20th century, also have some good advice in Mere Christianity and some interesting hypotheses in The Great Divorce.

I believe simply this--God, through the sacrifice of Jesus's death, can and will forgive any sin, no matter how large for those who repent and seek Him. We may be angry in some ways over this, but do not forget that He changes those who truly seek Him. God is a God of Justice, but He is also Love. Only He can truly know what is in anyone's heart.
Reply With Quote

  #22  
Old 05-28-2015, 02:12 PM
Kheldarson Kheldarson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,513
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barracuda View Post

I believe simply this--God, through the sacrifice of Jesus's death, can and will forgive any sin, no matter how large for those who repent and seek Him. We may be angry in some ways over this, but do not forget that He changes those who truly seek Him. God is a God of Justice, but He is also Love. Only He can truly know what is in anyone's heart.
True, but you've also come back to the main idea the rest of us have discussed with works: that truly seeking Christ changes you. It is impossible to know Christ and still continue to do great evil.
__________________
I has a blog!
Reply With Quote

  #23  
Old 05-29-2015, 07:18 AM
Barracuda Barracuda is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 33
Default

A good point. I suppose one could legitimately argue that those who claimed to be Christians and then committed great evil never truly knew Christ at all.
Reply With Quote

  #24  
Old 05-29-2015, 05:37 PM
s_stabeler s_stabeler is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,170
Default

the way I interpret it, actually- and not having fully read the bible, I admit i may be wrong- is that it isn't the act ( the works) that gets you into heaven, but why you do it. To give an example, it is mentioned that Lucius Malfoy in the Harry Potter books donated money to St Mungoes because it would get him greater influence. THAT I would consider works without faith, since he did it solely for the temporal benefits. Someone, however, who donated money to charity because they wanted to help- regardless of if they did because they were christian or not- would get the benefit from it, because they did it for a selfless reason.
Reply With Quote

  #25  
Old 05-29-2015, 06:14 PM
Kheldarson Kheldarson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,513
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by s_stabeler View Post
the way I interpret it, actually- and not having fully read the bible, I admit i may be wrong- is that it isn't the act ( the works) that gets you into heaven, but why you do it. To give an example, it is mentioned that Lucius Malfoy in the Harry Potter books donated money to St Mungoes because it would get him greater influence. THAT I would consider works without faith, since he did it solely for the temporal benefits. Someone, however, who donated money to charity because they wanted to help- regardless of if they did because they were christian or not- would get the benefit from it, because they did it for a selfless reason.
More or less.

There's a Christian hymn/anthem: "And they will know we are Christians by our love."
__________________
I has a blog!
Reply With Quote

  #26  
Old 05-29-2015, 06:20 PM
TheHuckster TheHuckster is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,463
Default

The way I interpret it is this:

If you think of your faith as a relationship with God, then your good deeds are solely to please God the same way one would do anything to please someone they care about. For instance, I choose not to cheat on my wife because doing so would greatly hurt her, not because doing so would greatly hurt me if she were to ever find out.

A lot of people, especially the fire and brimstone types, preach to do things just to avoid hell rather than to please God. This is why I strongly resent the hell-fire preaching style where the implication is the motive for doing or not doing something is solely because you don't want to go to hell, which is the incorrect lesson. If you are faithful, then your motivation for good works should be to reinforce the relationship you have, not solely to avoid the wrath that might occur if you don't.

And, of course, with that is the altruistic feeling of satisfaction if you do good works, which is something one can feel with or without religion.
Reply With Quote

  #27  
Old 06-02-2015, 01:06 AM
jedimaster91's Avatar
jedimaster91 jedimaster91 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 183
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by s_stabeler View Post
To give an example, it is mentioned that Lucius Malfoy in the Harry Potter books donated money to St Mungoes because it would get him greater influence. THAT I would consider works without faith, since he did it solely for the temporal benefits. Someone, however, who donated money to charity because they wanted to help- regardless of if they did because they were christian or not- would get the benefit from it, because they did it for a selfless reason.
There's a story in the Bible about the widow's mite. Other, more affluent, people looked down on the poor (as in not rich) widow for how little money she was giving in tithes. But Jesus pointed out that the small amount she was giving was not only proportionally much more than others, but it was being given in humility and faith without any expectation of earthly recognition or reward. It's always been one of my favorite lessons because whatever one does in faith is enough for God and He will make up the rest.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 04:32 PM.


vBulletin skins developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.