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wasn't sure how to title this....
  #1  
Old 11-10-2016, 08:23 PM
KellyHabersham KellyHabersham is offline
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Default wasn't sure how to title this....

*will try to keep this brief, honestly not sure how to word things*

To give some brief background - "Grace" used to be a member of the church my family attends, she's a lovely person, and happens to be bi-racial.

"Grace" and I are friends on Facebook, and during the last months or so before the election, she began to make more comments/posts regarding race, including to references to her identity as a "woman of X ethnic background." (admittedly, much of that I can't relate to, being from a different ethnic background)

And without getting into all the details, let's just say that "Grace" seemed/seems to feel that anyone who supports Trump is racist, sexist, and a bunch of other stuff. Which is something I highly disagree with, because I do know several Trump supporters who are NOT like that.

Anyhow, it's getting to the point where I'm feeling that while I do not want to unfriend "Grace" on Facebook, I do need to hide her posts from my Facebook feed. And that makes me sad, because this is a woman whom I had liked and had a lot of respect for.
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Old 11-10-2016, 10:17 PM
Rageaholic Rageaholic is offline
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As much as I despise Trump and pissed off that he won, I can agree that this kind of identity politics (from both the far left and the far right) are toxic. I'm seeing so much crap about "white privilege" and "white feminists" that I just have to shake my head.
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Old 11-10-2016, 11:13 PM
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AmbrosiaWriter AmbrosiaWriter is offline
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It's an awful thing, but I do think you'd feel better if you hid her posts for a time. In the end, the less you see of that awful side that this election has brought out in many people, the better you'll feel and the better you'll think of her.

Just give it some time to cool down. I am pissed that Trump won (...freaking electoral college), however, I understand that I have to wait and see what happens. Assumptions are only going to hurt everyone in the long run of it, and we need to see the blood hit the waters before we start salivating for vengeance.
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Old 11-11-2016, 04:09 AM
KellyHabersham KellyHabersham is offline
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Originally Posted by AmbrosiaWriter View Post
It's an awful thing, but I do think you'd feel better if you hid her posts for a time. In the end, the less you see of that awful side that this election has brought out in many people, the better you'll feel and the better you'll think of her.

Just give it some time to cool down. I am pissed that Trump won (...freaking electoral college), however, I understand that I have to wait and see what happens. Assumptions are only going to hurt everyone in the long run of it, and we need to see the blood hit the waters before we start salivating for vengeance.
That's what I'm trying to do......still friends on Facebook with Grace, but no longer following her posts as of this afternoon. I can and do respect many of her views, but have no tolerance for the "it's okay if I have these views because I'm of X ethnic background, but if a white person makes similar comments, they're racist" sort of attitude.
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Old 11-11-2016, 11:32 AM
SkullKing SkullKing is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KellyHabersham View Post
And without getting into all the details, let's just say that "Grace" seemed/seems to feel that anyone who supports Trump is racist, sexist,
I think the best commentary I saw on this goes "A trump supporter may not be racist or sexist, but racism and sexism in a president are not deal brakers for them"
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Old 11-11-2016, 03:28 PM
Canarr Canarr is offline
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Originally Posted by SkullKing View Post
I think the best commentary I saw on this goes "A trump supporter may not be racist or sexist, but racism and sexism in a president are not deal brakers for them"
Yes and no, I'd say. The problem with words like racism and sexism is, that the more people use them, the more they broaden their scope, the less effective they are. The less they mean.

I found this article here interesting. Quote:

There's a related problem: the boy-who-cried-wolf situation. I was happy to see a few liberals, like Bill Maher, owning up to it. Maher admitted during a recent show that he was wrong to treat George Bush, Mitt Romney, and John McCain like they were apocalyptic threats to the nation: it robbed him of the ability to treat Trump more seriously. The left said McCain was a racist supported by racists, it said Romney was a racist supported by racists, but when an actually racist Republican came along—and racists cheered him—it had lost its ability to credibly make that accusation.

We see a lot of that here in Germany, as well: basically, if you call someone a Nazi for daring to question immigration, or the acceptance of refugees, or the Gender Pay Gap - then what are you going to call someone who actually believes Hitler did the right think in murdering millions of people, and who'd like to bring back gas chambers? You've already used the worst word you can think of, so where could you possibly go from there?

My guess is, it's the same with a lot of Trump supporters. I don't believe the majority of them goes, "Well, sure, he's a racist and a sexist, but at least he's [enter reason here]." I think it's mostly, "Sure, they say he's a racist and a sexist, but they say that about me, too, for taking up too much space on the subway. Screw them!"

And, to finish this: I've read quite a few articles today suggesting that people - especially women - should've voted for Hillary because she's a woman. Which is, well... sexism.
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Old 11-12-2016, 04:37 AM
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HYHYBT HYHYBT is offline
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What I've mostly heard isn't that women should have voted for Clinton because she's a woman. It's that they should have voted for Clinton because Trump is horrible to women.
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Old 11-12-2016, 10:25 AM
Mr Hero Mr Hero is offline
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Originally Posted by Canarr View Post
Yes and no, I'd say. The problem with words like racism and sexism is, that the more people use them, the more they broaden their scope, the less effective they are. The less they mean.

I found this article here interesting. Quote:
I think that assessment is spot on. How many of us have had SC's accuse us of being racist just because we won't bend the rules for them? Eventually we just roll our eyes because we've heard it so often it doesn't even faze us.
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Old 11-12-2016, 04:41 PM
Canarr Canarr is offline
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Originally Posted by HYHYBT View Post
What I've mostly heard isn't that women should have voted for Clinton because she's a woman. It's that they should have voted for Clinton because Trump is horrible to women.
I've seen both... Trump's male voters are accused of hating women, his white voters of hating POC, and his female voters of deserting "the sisterhood" and ruining the chance of having the first female president of the US.

All of which is just looking for the easy answers - which just aren't there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Hero View Post
I think that assessment is spot on. How many of us have had SC's accuse us of being racist just because we won't bend the rules for them? Eventually we just roll our eyes because we've heard it so often it doesn't even faze us.
Exactly.
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Old 11-14-2016, 07:01 PM
Anthony K. S. Anthony K. S. is offline
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Originally Posted by Canarr View Post
I don't believe the majority of them goes, "Well, sure, he's a racist and a sexist, but at least he's [enter reason here]." I think it's mostly, "Sure, they say he's a racist and a sexist, but they say that about me, too, for taking up too much space on the subway. Screw them!"
That doesn't really explain it.

Were these people not following the news?


Did they not see Megyn Kelly grilling Donald Trump at the first Republican Presidential debate for his history of sexist and disparaging remarks about women? Were they not aware that it wasn't just the left, but conservatives as well, who were condemning Trump's infamous comment that Kelly had "blood coming out of her wherever"?

Seth Meyers noted the incredible irony that one of the conservatives defending Kelly against Trump was Erick Erickson.

"It's a big deal when Erick Erickson disinvites you for sexism, because Erick Erickson is a huge sexist," said Meyers, before playing a clip of Erickson saying that, by nature, men are supposed to "dominate" women.

Adding to the irony, Megyn Kelly herself had previously clashed with Erick Erickson over his comments that women are scientifically inferior to men and that having a woman as a family's breadwinner goes against biology and is harmful to marriage and children.

Kelly ripped into Erickson, saying "What makes you dominant and me submissive, and who died and made you Scientist-in-Chief?"


It wasn't just liberals who were criticizing Trump for saying of his GOP primary rival, Carly Fiorina, "Look at that face. Would anyone vote for that?"

During the debate, Trump also asked why Fiorina kept interrupting everybody, completely ignoring the fact that the male candidates were also talking over each other. He was called out for that, too.


When that videotape surfaced of Trump saying, "When you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab them by the pussy ..."

The people who condemned those remarks included the Republican Speaker of the House, Paul Ryan, and the Republican National Committee Chairman, Reince Priebus, among other conservatives.


Paul Ryan and Megyn Kelly both also clashed with Trump over his statement that federal judge Gonzalo Curiel was incapable of fairly presiding over the class action lawsuit regarding Trump University, because of Curiel's Mexican heritage.

Dick Cheney said that Trump's proposed ban of Muslim immigrants to the United States "goes against everything we stand for and believe in." The Republicans denouncing Trump's statement also included Carly Fiorina, Lindsey Graham, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, and John Kasich.

When Trump tweeted that cringe-worthy picture of himself posing with a taco bowl on Cinco de Mayo, saying, "I love Hispanics," Jeb Bush commented that it was like eating a watermelon and saying "I love African-Americans."

Colin Powell condemned the birther movement as racist and attacked Trump for being one of its leaders. Former RNC Chairman Michael Steele refused to endorse Trump, saying that he had "captured that racist underbelly, that frustration, that angry underbelly of American life and gave voice to that." Republicans slammed Trump for failing to immediately reject the support of white supremacist and former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke.

And was it the left alone that condemned Trump's characterization of Mexican immigrants as criminals and rapists?


The list goes on and on and on ...

So what exactly are we saying here?

Did these people actually think, "Well, Trump has said all of these things about women, about Mexicans, Muslims, blacks, Asians, Native Americans ... and a lot of conservatives have condemned him for them ... Oh, but liberals are saying that he's sexist and racist. Therefore, he must NOT be sexist and racist. I'm sold!"

Seriously?

We don't just form our opinions about candidates based on what other people say about them. If nothing else, were these voters not reading and watching the news and seeing and hearing for themselves the actual statements that Trump had made, quite apart from what anybody else was saying about him?
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