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  #11  
Old 05-27-2015, 06:41 AM
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Even if you're having sex while on birth control, I think the bigger sin would be having kids that you're not willing and able to care for.
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  #12  
Old 05-28-2015, 08:27 PM
cindybubbles cindybubbles is offline
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Originally Posted by MadMike View Post
Even if you're having sex while on birth control, I think the bigger sin would be having kids that you're not willing and able to care for.
Yeah, I know. But that doesn't stop certain people from having them, unfortunately; however, that's probably a subject for another thread.
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  #13  
Old 05-28-2016, 08:10 PM
Estil Estil is offline
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While I have always identified as pro-life, and I hope this doesn't make me sound like a traitor, but I am all for things like birth control/contraceptives/condoms and teaching about their use and effectiveness (with the clear understanding that if done consistently and correctly can lower (to varying degrees) the pregnancy/STD risk but are not foolproof either and that an adult decision like sex comes with adult consequences) in sex ed class. And as far as the morning after deals...I suppose that's better than later aborting a baby that's got a beating heart and possibly can feel pain/consciousness...you know what I mean?

I guess what I'm trying to say is, yes I'm pro-life but a realist at the same time and that if the right-to-life movement is ultimately going to succeed, it's gotta go one step at a time, just like any sort of social/political/etc movement in history.
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  #14  
Old 05-28-2016, 08:17 PM
Estil Estil is offline
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Originally Posted by mathnerd View Post
Just to ease your mind a little bit more, I found this topic discussed on the website of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. The page is:

http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-tea...ex.cfm#medical

The relevant part of the page (emphasis mine):
Trouble is, the people who make these rules are old (mostly white) men...what do they know about things like parenting and especially marriage? I know Catholics are expected to get their marriage counseling from their local priest but what could he possibly know from personal experience what marriage/parenting is like? It's no different than how Barney Fife used to love giving Andy his two cents on parenting when he is not a parent himself (and yes it was a recurring theme).

As far as the Church's view on contraception and such goes, don't they realize that's far better than a baby getting aborted? And as far as Christian denominations encouraging hatred of LGBT's (they'll never admit it but that is what happens in practice) don't they realize it's better for say, LGBT's to give children good homes/parents than say, those same children otherwise maybe being lifelong orphans, or worse, end up aborted? Yes I know some will say I'm gonna burn for this but hey, give me "Heather has Two Mommies" over "Heather stays stuck in orphange" or "Heather ends up in abusive home" or "Heather gets aborted" any day!
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  #15  
Old 05-29-2016, 07:06 PM
mjr mjr is offline
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From a white Christian male protestant perspective, I've heard that some of the "it's a sin to use birth control" thought process comes from a couple of different places:

1. There's a line of thought in some denominations (I don't know how prevalent this is in Catholicism) that using birth control subverts the will of God. In other words, if you're using something artificial to keep from getting pregnant, that may not be the will of God, and therefore it's a sin.

I think regarding this one, even if you're a believer in whatever denomination, it's a matter of reading scripture and deciding for yourself.

2. There's likely a line of thought that says it's also disobedient to God. This ties into #1 in a way, but it leads to another line of thinking I've heard of.

Not to graphic, but some people/denominations believe it's "sinful" to "waste" semen. Therefore, male masturbation is forbidden. Also, in this line of thinking, the only acceptable place for a man to purposefully ejaculate is inside a woman's vagina -- and nowhere else. Just like (or so I've heard) in some denominations the only acceptable sexual position is missionary.

The "sinful to waste" thing I do believe comes from the Old Testament, the account Onan (see Genesis 38:9). The issue there, though, is not that Onan "pulled out" and "spilled his seed on the ground". It's that he disobeyed God.

Again, I think this is a matter of reading scripture, consulting with clergy, and deciding for yourself.
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  #16  
Old 05-29-2016, 09:03 PM
Estil Estil is offline
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Yeah I was taught that whole "wasting semen is a sin" thing too...and it really messed me up big time...to the extent that I wished that I didn't have a penis or wasn't born male (yes I was told that this was a boy's problem) or that eh, you know what was an evil dirty thing. And of course back then there was no Internet or much else to let me know any different and that is one of the main reasons I'm not able to even have a normal proper sexual relationship with even my own wife...because I was led to believe that sexual sorts of things and desires was dirty and evil and let you to burn in hell. That I think is even more dangerous than singling out LGBT things as if it's one of the mother lodes of sin.
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  #17  
Old 05-30-2016, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjr View Post

1. There's a line of thought in some denominations (I don't know how prevalent this is in Catholicism) that using birth control subverts the will of God. In other words, if you're using something artificial to keep from getting pregnant, that may not be the will of God, and therefore it's a sin.
I have a BIG problem with the above statement. Not because MJR posted it but in general. the problem is "God's Will". What exactly is God's Will??? How do we know what God's Will IS??. Supposedly God "informed" or "divinely inspired" some humans to put down some words that was allegedly His (or Her) thoughts on human things like rules of conduct and behavior. Unless someone has a direct line from their brain to God's ( His or Her) Mind NO one really knows.

There have been SOOOOOO many people who "claim" they KNOW EXACTLY what God's Will is (and most have claimed very diverse and DIFFERENT meanings to said Will). Even the "holiest" men and founders of major religions have been nit-picked and interperated in SOOOOO many different ways.

"WELLL this is what I "think" God meant and that is my story and I am sticking to it". ad nausium through out history.
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  #18  
Old 05-30-2016, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Estil View Post
While I have always identified as pro-life, and I hope this doesn't make me sound like a traitor, but I am all for things like birth control/contraceptives/condoms...
Better treason than wishful thinking I say.
Unwanted pregnancies are a fact of life, and they're going to happen for all kinds of reasons. Someone who advocates a "pro-life" position without favouring birth control/contraceptives/sex-ed/morning-after pill is woefully fooling themselves. At the expense of other people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Estil View Post
Yeah I was taught that whole "wasting semen is a sin"
Ah the "handjobs are genocide" school of thought? Don't even want to think about what that means for blowjobs
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  #19  
Old 05-30-2016, 05:21 PM
TheHuckster TheHuckster is offline
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The whole "waste of semen" thing is bogus. The same semen doesn't just stay with you forever until you ejaculate. You are repeatedly generating and rejecting semen whether you ejaculate or not... not to mention IIRC ejaculation often occurs unvoluntarily every few weeks if you haven't had any action.
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  #20  
Old 05-30-2016, 07:09 PM
s_stabeler s_stabeler is offline
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it's worth noting that the more...extreme definitions of what constitutes a sin often coincide with religions that preach that unless you repent for your sins by doing exactly what they tell you to, you'll burn in hell.

it's an issue that really needs it's own thread, but I always figured the more extreme sects had misunderstood something fundamental- specifically, that God is not an elitist jerk, saying that everyone who isn't absolutely perfect can't get into heaven. He wants as many people as possible to make it into Heaven, and ideally, everyone would.It's why it's my personal belief that if you truly repent of your sins- that is, acknowledge what you did was wrong, and wish you could go back and reverse it- then it is never too late to repent.(on the other hand, it must be true repentance- merely wanting to dodge Hell is not enough. So in the classic case of a genocidal dictator repenting on their deathbed, if they are just trying to get away with their sins, they go to hell. If it was an epiphany about their actions in life, they may be forgiven their sins, extreme as they were.(and yes, since God is omniscient-All-Knowing- He can tell the difference)

it's also why I go by the principle that it's how you act that matters, not what ceremonies you go through.(so, to use an extreme example, if you attend Church regularly, but then go off hunting orphans for sport, you're going to Hell regardless of how pious you apparently are. On the other extreme, even Atheists can get into heaven, IMHO- provided they have been behaving in a reasonably moral way. (that is, if an Atheiist behaves no more immorally than the average person let into heaven, let them in.(after all, if God does exist, I doubt the Atheiist would be one for long postmortem. As such, I see it that God sees Atheists as amusing, rather than an enemy as such.)
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