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Matt Lauer Firing
  #1  
Old 11-29-2017, 06:19 PM
kibbles kibbles is offline
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Angry Matt Lauer Firing

When a harassment allegation is made, I can see taking the proper steps to do an investigation and then taking action based on said results. But with people automatically losing everything as soon as a "victim" comes forward, is it safe to assume that the entire basis of the legal system..innocent until proven guilty...is being tossed out??
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Old 11-29-2017, 07:24 PM
s_stabeler s_stabeler is offline
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it can be somewhat complicated- and it does depend on a couple of factors that aren't necessarily obvious.
1. for obvious reasons, when harassment alleegations are made, the people involved need to be kept apart (since if the allegations are true, retaliation is a possibility, if they are false, then seperating the two is still likely a good idea since the allegation means there's at least bad blood between the two now.) and that's not always possible (and firing the accuser is, in fact, illegal since it comes under Retaliation)
2. it depends on how credible the allegation is.
3. it can be that the organisation is unwilling to make whatever changes are nessecary to seperate them.

I don't disagree that it tends to look like throwing innocent until proven guilty ut the window though.
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Old 11-29-2017, 09:46 PM
kibbles kibbles is offline
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I totally agree with your post. It seems as if there is no happy medium people are willing to reach. It's either an environment where true victims are afraid to come forward or an environment where everyone accused is automatically vilified. Each choice is just as damaging and disgusting IMO.
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Old 11-30-2017, 02:46 AM
Gravekeeper Gravekeeper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kibbles View Post
When a harassment allegation is made, I can see taking the proper steps to do an investigation and then taking action based on said results. But with people automatically losing everything as soon as a "victim" comes forward, is it safe to assume that the entire basis of the legal system..innocent until proven guilty...is being tossed out??
Lauer has been sleazy for years. Even Curic said a few years back that he was always trying to pinch her ass and it drove her nuts. I mean, we are talking about the guy who once commented on Vince Gill's daughters breasts. To Vince Gill. Not realizing it was his daughter.
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  #5  
Old 12-06-2017, 02:30 PM
Crazedclerkthe2nd Crazedclerkthe2nd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kibbles View Post
When a harassment allegation is made, I can see taking the proper steps to do an investigation and then taking action based on said results. But with people automatically losing everything as soon as a "victim" comes forward, is it safe to assume that the entire basis of the legal system..innocent until proven guilty...is being tossed out??
Your employer is not the legal system and they do, in most cases, have full rights to fire you over some bullshit allegation if they so choose, regardless of whether or not you are later acquitted in a court of law.

Also, NBC said the main reason they acted on Lauer when they did was because they had some extremely credible and well corroborated information regarding his actions. It was more than just one victim and one random allegation.
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  #6  
Old 12-06-2017, 03:54 PM
TheHuckster TheHuckster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazedclerkthe2nd View Post
Your employer is not the legal system and they do, in most cases, have full rights to fire you over some bullshit allegation if they so choose, regardless of whether or not you are later acquitted in a court of law.

Also, NBC said the main reason they acted on Lauer when they did was because they had some extremely credible and well corroborated information regarding his actions. It was more than just one victim and one random allegation.
Yeah, I understand the general viewpoint that we should be wary of a policy where all it takes to ruin one's career is to point at them and accuse them of harassment or assault. But that doesn't apply to Lauer at all. He's been caught on camera doing this stuff.
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  #7  
Old 12-06-2017, 05:47 PM
mjr mjr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHuckster View Post
Yeah, I understand the general viewpoint that we should be wary of a policy where all it takes to ruin one's career is to point at them and accuse them of harassment or assault.
Two words: Ezekiel Elliott.
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  #8  
Old 12-08-2017, 01:58 AM
kibbles kibbles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazedclerkthe2nd View Post
Your employer is not the legal system and they do, in most cases, have full rights to fire you over some bullshit allegation if they so choose, regardless of whether or not you are later acquitted in a court of law.

Also, NBC said the main reason they acted on Lauer when they did was because they had some extremely credible and well corroborated information regarding his actions. It was more than just one victim and one random allegation.
Very true about employers for sure..it is too bad that there isn't some balance where the investigation is allowed to take place without someone's life being automatically ruined.
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  #9  
Old 12-08-2017, 07:27 PM
protege protege is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazedclerkthe2nd View Post
Your employer is not the legal system and they do, in most cases, have full rights to fire you over some bullshit allegation if they so choose, regardless of whether or not you are later acquitted in a court of law.
That's exactly it. Just about every employer has some legalese document about employee conduct. Said conduct usually has a clause about how sexual harassment is a problem...and won't be tolerated. They are well within their rights to fire you, even if you do get acquitted. Severe consequences, but they have their reputations to think about.

Quote:
It was more than just one victim and one random allegation.
I'm sure there's a lot that was going on behind the scenes for years. If it was just one victim, it would have been all "OK, maybe they don't get along and she's trying to ruin him." But to have multiple victims, and have their stories match up? That's something else entirely.
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  #10  
Old 12-11-2017, 03:29 PM
Canarr Canarr is offline
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Slatestarcodex has an interesting article on the gendering of sexual harassment.

But there’s also a deeper issue. Suppose I write about how we need to do more to support the victims of terrorism. Sounds good. But what if I write about how we need to do more to support the Christian victims of Muslim terrorism? Sounds…like maybe I have an agenda. If I write story after story about how Christians need to be on the watch out for Muslim terrorists, but Muslims need to be on the watch out for other Muslims being terrorists, and if I tell Muslim victims of Christian terrorism to stay silent because that’s not “structural oppression” – then that “maybe” turns to “obviously”. This is true even if the numbers show terrorists are disproportionately Muslim.
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