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  #21  
Old 07-04-2017, 03:31 PM
mjr mjr is offline
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Originally Posted by Greenday View Post
To be fair, I bet the vast majority of Gen X and Baby Boomers can't do it either.
That's probably true.

But don't you think it's kind of important to know those kinds of things? Especially with the amount of times we see/hear people screaming "It's my right..." or "I know my rights..."

Personally, I think the Federalist Papers, Declaration of Independence, and Constitution should be compulsory learning in the U.S. in Public Schools.
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  #22  
Old 07-04-2017, 07:12 PM
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Greenday Greenday is offline
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Originally Posted by mjr View Post
That's probably true.

But don't you think it's kind of important to know those kinds of things? Especially with the amount of times we see/hear people screaming "It's my right..." or "I know my rights..."

Personally, I think the Federalist Papers, Declaration of Independence, and Constitution should be compulsory learning in the U.S. in Public Schools.
There's a lot of basic stuff that just doesn't get taught...like the states and their capitols. That was a surprise to me when I got to college.
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  #23  
Old 07-04-2017, 07:23 PM
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D_Yeti_Esquire D_Yeti_Esquire is offline
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I see the point you're making here. However, I will point out that there are many who thought HRC mentally unfit, too. Some thought she was unfit, period.
Do you honestly not see how addicted you are to HRC? She isn't the president. She hasn't been news since November of last year. We are talking about things happening in reality, not hypotheticals. HRC never has been president.

And dude - that's a wall 'o text so let me quick hit (because I don't have this level of time.)

Anything Re: Obama - bit of a topic switch, don't you think?

Re: Liberals aren't as... - we already had this discussion or do you not remember it?

Quote:
state
I don't quite follow when you say "mythologizing liberal thought". I really want to be reasonable here. I do agree that the first commercial has a certain tone to it (being the NRA), but can we have a discussion about the validity (or not) of the points in the video:
It's incumbent on the person making claims to prove their position, not on the other person to prove a negative. However to your question about mythologizing - mythologizing is just that - filling in gaps in knowledge with something else. My guess is, in an effort to keep cognititive dissonance at a minimum - that something else ain't good. So lets just take a look at those claims at face value:

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They use their media to assassinate real news.
Problematic in two places - 1, the definition of real news here is non-existent. I've seen plenty of reporting of facts on both sides. Some more reputable than others and easily debunked when false. People do it. Here's Politifact http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...news-channels/. And who the fuck is "they?"

Quote:
2. They use their schools to teach children that their President is another Hitler.
Again there's two problems here - There are 3.1 million teachers in the US and if I'm just being nice and saying 1 in 10,000 are batshit, then there are at least 300 batshit teachers running around. So again, who are "they" and why do they own the crazy? When a school district or board gets wacky, that's a local board issue.

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They use their movie stars, and singers, and comedy shows and award shows to repeat their narrative over and over again.
Again, who are they? Susan Sarandon is not Sarah Silverman who is not Stephen Colbert who is not James Woods, who is not Michael Bay. Entertainers tend to skew liberal for the same reason sports figures tend to skew conservative - peer groups. There's no they - just people. And if you want to go there, than please let me know how the current DCEU or Marvel is all that liberal and not just candy-coated consumerism. Really would like to hear that one.

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They use their ex President to endorse "the resistance", all to make them march, make them protest, make them scream racism and sexism and xenophobia and homophobia, to smash windows, burn cars, shut down interstates and airports, bully and terrorize the law abiding, until the only option left is for the police to do their jobs and stop the madness. And when that happens, they'll use it as an excuse for their outrage.
So Obama picks up the bat-phone and the mysterious "they" tells him to what exactly? I mean the rhetorical slippery slope is obvious in this statement if you just read it. Protest, call out racism, sexism, xenophobia, and homophobia are valid to call out if someone has cause. But the conjunction of those with excesses of protesting with no break rhetorically reads that one begets the other.

The people who break the law may believe the same thing as the other, but they are not representative of the whole group. Or at least they're not if you wouldn't want me making the case Conservatives shoot up black schools, take over public land, etc., etc.
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  #24  
Old 07-04-2017, 07:27 PM
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D_Yeti_Esquire D_Yeti_Esquire is offline
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Sorry, did we just bring up the Federalist Papers?

To judge from the conduct of the opposite parties, we shall be led to conclude that they will mutually hope to evince the justness of their opinions, and to increase the number of their converts by the loudness of their declamations and the bitterness of their invectives. An enlightened zeal for the energy and efficiency of government will be stigmatized as the offspring of a temper fond of despotic power and hostile to the principles of liberty. An over-scrupulous jealousy of danger to the rights of the people, which is more commonly the fault of the head than the heart, will be represented as mere pretense and artifice, the stale bait for popularity at the expense of the public good.

It will be forgotton, on the one hand, that jealousy is the usual concomitant of love, and that the noble enthusiasm of liberty is apt to be infected with a spirit of narrow and illiberal distrust. On the other hand, it will be equally forgotten that the vigor of government is essential to the security of liberty; that in the contemplation of a sound and well-informed judgement, their interest can never be separated; and that a dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the forbidden appearance of zeal for the firmness and efficiency of government. History will teach us that the former has been found a much more certain road to the introduction to despotism than the latter, and that of those men who have overturned the liberties of republics, the greatest number have begun their career by paying an obsequious court to the people; commencing demagogues, and ending tyrants.


<-- probably one of my favorite documents.

Last edited by D_Yeti_Esquire; 07-04-2017 at 07:43 PM.
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  #25  
Old 07-06-2017, 11:08 AM
mjr mjr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D_Yeti_Esquire View Post
Do you honestly not see how addicted you are to HRC? She isn't the president. She hasn't been news since November of last year. We are talking about things happening in reality, not hypotheticals. HRC never has been president.
Only reason I brought her up is that she was the "other" major candidate.

Quote:
Anything Re: Obama - bit of a topic switch, don't you think?
Eh, just checking for some consistency.

Quote:
Problematic in two places - 1, the definition of real news here is non-existent. I've seen plenty of reporting of facts on both sides. Some more reputable than others and easily debunked when false. People do it. Here's Politifact http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...news-channels/. And who the fuck is "they?"
I think, in the context of the video, "they" is the far left, SJWs, ANTIFA, and "snowflakes".

Quote:
Again there's two problems here - There are 3.1 million teachers in the US and if I'm just being nice and saying 1 in 10,000 are batshit, then there are at least 300 batshit teachers running around. So again, who are "they" and why do they own the crazy? When a school district or board gets wacky, that's a local board issue.
Again, I think they meant to extend this into the university level. And one doesn't have to be "crazy" to push an ideology -- would you agree? And "they" again, is the people referenced above.

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Again, who are they? Susan Sarandon is not Sarah Silverman who is not Stephen Colbert who is not James Woods, who is not Michael Bay. Entertainers tend to skew liberal for the same reason sports figures tend to skew conservative - peer groups.
While I agree that people tend to be lumped into general "groups", those people you mentioned likely have the same general mentality toward conservatives and conservative groups. I'm sure you've heard the things they've said. Likewise the other way around. And I'm sure you'd agree that just because someone is "friendly" to you politically, doesn't make everything they say about "the other side" appropriate -- or correct.


Quote:
So Obama picks up the bat-phone and the mysterious "they" tells him to what exactly?
I think the video meant it the other way around. I think the video implies that Obama is somehow telling these groups what do do. He was, after all, a "community organizer".

Quote:
Protest, call out racism, sexism, xenophobia, and homophobia are valid to call out if someone has cause. But the conjunction of those with excesses of protesting with no break rhetorically reads that one begets the other.
True, but we both know the difference in a "protest" and a "riot". When people are burning things down and attacking people, that's not a "protest" by any definition.

Quote:
The people who break the law may believe the same thing as the other, but they are not representative of the whole group. Or at least they're not if you wouldn't want me making the case Conservatives shoot up black schools, take over public land, etc., etc.
I'm glad we're on the same page.

Last edited by mjr; 07-06-2017 at 11:11 AM.
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  #26  
Old 07-15-2017, 03:35 AM
Gravekeeper Gravekeeper is offline
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I am honestly and continually stunned that anyone is defending any of what is currently going on.

The excuses are amazing. Every new level of rock bottom Trump digs down to, his cult of personality struggles to defend. Then he usually undercuts them, and his own press secretary, before they can even finish defending *that* new level of bullshit.

None of this is normal. None of it is okay. Get your head out of the sand and/or the President's asshole. You're fucking America, not North Korea.

And that's probably as politely as I can articulate my thoughts on the current situation. -.-
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