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Matt Lauer Firing
  #1  
Old 11-29-2017, 05:19 PM
kibbles kibbles is offline
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Angry Matt Lauer Firing

When a harassment allegation is made, I can see taking the proper steps to do an investigation and then taking action based on said results. But with people automatically losing everything as soon as a "victim" comes forward, is it safe to assume that the entire basis of the legal system..innocent until proven guilty...is being tossed out??
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Old 11-29-2017, 06:24 PM
s_stabeler s_stabeler is offline
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it can be somewhat complicated- and it does depend on a couple of factors that aren't necessarily obvious.
1. for obvious reasons, when harassment alleegations are made, the people involved need to be kept apart (since if the allegations are true, retaliation is a possibility, if they are false, then seperating the two is still likely a good idea since the allegation means there's at least bad blood between the two now.) and that's not always possible (and firing the accuser is, in fact, illegal since it comes under Retaliation)
2. it depends on how credible the allegation is.
3. it can be that the organisation is unwilling to make whatever changes are nessecary to seperate them.

I don't disagree that it tends to look like throwing innocent until proven guilty ut the window though.
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Old 11-29-2017, 08:46 PM
kibbles kibbles is offline
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I totally agree with your post. It seems as if there is no happy medium people are willing to reach. It's either an environment where true victims are afraid to come forward or an environment where everyone accused is automatically vilified. Each choice is just as damaging and disgusting IMO.
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Old 11-30-2017, 01:46 AM
Gravekeeper Gravekeeper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kibbles View Post
When a harassment allegation is made, I can see taking the proper steps to do an investigation and then taking action based on said results. But with people automatically losing everything as soon as a "victim" comes forward, is it safe to assume that the entire basis of the legal system..innocent until proven guilty...is being tossed out??
Lauer has been sleazy for years. Even Curic said a few years back that he was always trying to pinch her ass and it drove her nuts. I mean, we are talking about the guy who once commented on Vince Gill's daughters breasts. To Vince Gill. Not realizing it was his daughter.
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  #5  
Old 12-06-2017, 01:30 PM
Crazedclerkthe2nd Crazedclerkthe2nd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kibbles View Post
When a harassment allegation is made, I can see taking the proper steps to do an investigation and then taking action based on said results. But with people automatically losing everything as soon as a "victim" comes forward, is it safe to assume that the entire basis of the legal system..innocent until proven guilty...is being tossed out??
Your employer is not the legal system and they do, in most cases, have full rights to fire you over some bullshit allegation if they so choose, regardless of whether or not you are later acquitted in a court of law.

Also, NBC said the main reason they acted on Lauer when they did was because they had some extremely credible and well corroborated information regarding his actions. It was more than just one victim and one random allegation.
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  #6  
Old 12-06-2017, 02:54 PM
TheHuckster TheHuckster is offline
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Originally Posted by Crazedclerkthe2nd View Post
Your employer is not the legal system and they do, in most cases, have full rights to fire you over some bullshit allegation if they so choose, regardless of whether or not you are later acquitted in a court of law.

Also, NBC said the main reason they acted on Lauer when they did was because they had some extremely credible and well corroborated information regarding his actions. It was more than just one victim and one random allegation.
Yeah, I understand the general viewpoint that we should be wary of a policy where all it takes to ruin one's career is to point at them and accuse them of harassment or assault. But that doesn't apply to Lauer at all. He's been caught on camera doing this stuff.
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  #7  
Old 12-06-2017, 04:47 PM
mjr mjr is offline
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Originally Posted by TheHuckster View Post
Yeah, I understand the general viewpoint that we should be wary of a policy where all it takes to ruin one's career is to point at them and accuse them of harassment or assault.
Two words: Ezekiel Elliott.
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  #8  
Old 12-06-2017, 08:20 PM
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D_Yeti_Esquire D_Yeti_Esquire is offline
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Lauer for the most part I didn't worry about too much. For better or worse, the man had built up a laundry list of accusers and the skeezy shit he was allegedly up to had been building for years. That's the sort of impunity that frankly, my privileged but not super privileged ass gets pissed off about.

However I did want to leave this link here because I read this about a week ago and I've been pondering Katty's points - http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42200092

Whether or not this moment in time is cathartic, the only thing that will ultimately make it sustainable is full buy in from everyone. I think in some of the cases we're seeing now, the main reason we don't see a whole lot of rush to defend them is because the allegations keep popping up. So there's an element of either a pattern or a conspiracy with the first being more likely and less hard to control than the last.

Ultimately though, the rubber's going to meet the road when these cases get less clear. When you just have a single accuser and a single accused. I believe you is well and good, but due process has to exist. Or you reach the other extreme such as guys going all Mike Pence and not being willing to be in the same room with a woman without their wife or some ally present.

Whether it's logical or not, you have to assume that people with enough to lose will take precautions if they see a pervasive pattern of "if a few innocent men have to go down to get change, that's fine." And ultimately what you'll see is powerful men mostly protecting themselves and sort of the less powerful men going down.

Generally the powerful figure out the new rules faster than the rest of us. It's how they stay powerful.
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  #9  
Old 12-08-2017, 12:58 AM
kibbles kibbles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazedclerkthe2nd View Post
Your employer is not the legal system and they do, in most cases, have full rights to fire you over some bullshit allegation if they so choose, regardless of whether or not you are later acquitted in a court of law.

Also, NBC said the main reason they acted on Lauer when they did was because they had some extremely credible and well corroborated information regarding his actions. It was more than just one victim and one random allegation.
Very true about employers for sure..it is too bad that there isn't some balance where the investigation is allowed to take place without someone's life being automatically ruined.
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  #10  
Old 12-08-2017, 01:12 AM
kibbles kibbles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D_Yeti_Esquire View Post

However I did want to leave this link here because I read this about a week ago and I've been pondering Katty's points - http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42200092
Excellent article..thanks for the share! I agree with every word of that article. It is possible that a backlash is possible. Yes, the sexual predators/perverts of the world should be called out, but all harassment is not equal..not in the slightest! And the way the media reacts to everything, the way employers do have the right to fire at will in most places..I can't blame anyone for being overly cautious. It's sad if it resulted in backlash and real, true victims were abandoned
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