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The allowing of ceremonial knives on school grounds
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:08 PM
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Default The allowing of ceremonial knives on school grounds

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/n...-1226542351230

So basically the Sikh population wants to carry their ceremonial knives (kirpans) into schools. Your thoughts?
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:18 PM
SongsOfDragons SongsOfDragons is offline
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AFAIK most kirpans are dull things bolted into their sheaths, under 3 inches long. You'd probably be better off using a ruler or a pencil as a weapon.
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Old 12-22-2012, 03:31 PM
wolfie wolfie is offline
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Has been allowed in Canada for many years, since religious freedom trumps public safety (there have been cases where Sikhs have drawn their Kirpans in schoolyard fights, even though the circumstances under which they're allowed to carry them REQUIRE that they be secured in such a manner that they can't be removed from their sheaths.

I'm waiting for The Church Of Jesus Christ (Crusader) to spring up, with a requirement that its members carry a cross-hilted sword. Unfortunately, the mindset most likely to have this happen is concentrated in Alberta, while the people most able to justify it in a court challenge are in Quebec, and Quebec and Alberta don't get along very well.

Why would Quebec be able to justify it better than Alberta? Simple - Quebec is francophone, and the French version of our national anthem contains the lines "Quant ton bras sait porter l'epee, il sait porter la croix", which translates literally as "when your arm knows how to carry the sword, it knows how to carry the cross". Basically, the French version of our national anthem equates the carrying of (edged) weapons with sincerity of belief, so it's discrimination to allow one religious group (Sikhs) to carry edged weapons while banning another (Christians) from doing the same.
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Old 12-22-2012, 09:59 PM
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When I was teaching in the mid-to-late 90's, there was an issue that arose with one of our Sikh students being suspended, facing expulsion, for bringing theirs to school. After much debate, it stood with just the suspension and the warning to never bring it again. There were a few attempts to make it legal in California, going as far as AB504 being passed by the State Assembly in 2009. Unfortunately, it was vetoed by Schwarzenegger.

While trying to find an article about that particular incident, I found this.

Sikhs allowed to carry daggers at Calif. school
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Old 12-22-2012, 11:53 PM
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A bit of googling reveals that New York (IIRC) had a ruling that the kirpans were to be kept in the sheaths and then glued or otherwise covered up so that they were impossible to draw.
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:55 AM
Fire_on_High Fire_on_High is offline
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I could have sworn I remember reading somewhere that given the necessity of rendering a kirpan nonfunctional to be legal, that at least one Sikh spiritual leader (can't remember if they're gurus or something else and CBA to look it up) had stated that a symbolic kirpan pendant was considered acceptable.
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Old 12-24-2012, 06:21 AM
Nyoibo Nyoibo is offline
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If they're devout enough that they're going to carry a Kirpan and the other trappings then they know that they'll get hell for drawing it not just from the school but religeously as well, it's only supposed to be drawn to defend others or in extreme cases for self defence.
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Old 12-24-2012, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyoibo View Post
If they're devout enough that they're going to carry a Kirpan and the other trappings then they know that they'll get hell for drawing it not just from the school but religeously as well, it's only supposed to be drawn to defend others or in extreme cases for self defence.
And the best part is, you can't suddenly buy a Kirpan and claim to be a Sikh for a few reasons...

1)like others have said, the Kirpan can be symbolic. I suspect that the gurdwaras and other suppliers of kirpans down here have been selling symbolic swords rather than real ones

2) the Kirpan is one of what is known as the five k's. the other four stand for uncut hair, a wooden comb used to keep the hair in place, a symbolic bangle and a set of special undergarments. You need to wearing or carrying all of these before you can join the Khalsa.
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Old 01-16-2014, 05:01 AM
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Having grown up with pocket knives being a normal item carried from middle school on, my view may be a little skewed, but I dont see why it shouldnt be allowed.

Of the Sihks I have met, all but a scant few have carried impractical kripans. Most have ranged from extremely blunted knives (most butter knives have more edge), to tiny decorative items, being just a handle fused to an empty sheath. Not exactly a scary weapon innapropriate for the environment.

Now, the guy with the practical kripan, that was a thing of beauty. High carbon blade with a shaving sharp scandi grind, micarta handles with brass hardware, and a formed kydex sheath. This same individual also had a small pewter kripan pendant inlaid into the grip panel of his 1911. We got along well.
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Old 01-17-2014, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Signmaker View Post
Having grown up with pocket knives being a normal item carried from middle school on, my view may be a little skewed, but I dont see why it shouldnt be allowed.

Of the Sihks I have met, all but a scant few have carried impractical kripans. Most have ranged from extremely blunted knives (most butter knives have more edge), to tiny decorative items, being just a handle fused to an empty sheath. Not exactly a scary weapon innapropriate for the environment.
No, your view isn't entirely skewed. Outdoor ed programs down here are fairly common in high schools, so a student having access to a knife in that case is not unusual.

As for the impractical kirpan, the loudest commenters unfortunately tend to be the uneducated who believe that if a kid so much LOOKS at a knife, they're going to suddenly become a criminal.

Or alternately they're of the "If the average citizen can't have it, then nobody can" thing.
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