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Kim Davis a political prisoner?
  #1  
Old 09-05-2015, 02:34 PM
protege protege is offline
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Default Kim Davis a political prisoner?

I thought this one deserved its own thread...as to not swamp the other one.

While opening up Facebook this morning, I came across this gem from my dad:

Quote:
This woman clerk in Kentucky has been jailed for not issuing same-sex marriage liscenses. While I am not opposed to same sex marriages, I am opposed to America creating political prisoners because that IS what she is.
A political prisoner? Kim Davis did nothing more than break the law...and attempt to hide behind religion to justify it. Thoughts?
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Old 09-05-2015, 03:59 PM
wolfie wolfie is offline
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When someone takes a job, the understanding is that they are willing to fulfil the requirements of the job. If the job requirements go against your religious beliefs, don't take the fucking job. A couple examples:

- A Moslem gets a job as a bartender, and refuses to serve booze because "Alcohol is offensive to the Prophet". Hello, McFly - you should have known that serving booze is the primary job function of a bartender.

- An Orthodox Jew gets a job as a sandwich artist at Subway, and refuses to make any sandwich involving ham, "fish without fins" (e.g. the limited-time lobster sub), or both meat and cheese.

How long would either of these people last before they're thrown out on their asses?

It seems to me that most of these people crying "religious discrimination" actively sought a job where some of the requirements are against their religion in order to become a "gatekeeper" and impose their beliefs on others. In this particular case, the job duties include issuing marriage licenses to any couple meeting the state's criteria for "these people can legally get married". Not only is she refusing to issue licenses, but she's ordered her deputies not to issue licenses (one compromise that was offered to her was that she PERSONALLY would not be required to issue licenses to gay couples, with her deputies issuing the licenses instead). Sounds like what she wants is a "Tea Party Compromise", a.k.a. "The other side gives me everything I want".
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Old 09-05-2015, 06:23 PM
Gravekeeper Gravekeeper is offline
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The best what if example I've heard so far is would these people support a Quaker who refused to issue gun licenses because of a religious belief in pacifism? I'm guessing fuck no. -.-

Also, no. She is not a political prisoner. Though I see this new meme of her being one is emerging among a select few in the fever swamp of right wing blogs and "news" sites. I don't even mean the dubious ones like Breitbart. I mean the really really out there ones that scream about Marxists ruling the US government and the IRS being a crime syndicate, etc.

Far as I can tell the original source is some whack job's crazy rant on a web forum. Well, forums. As he has gone around copy pasting his lunacy on a number of different conservative sites. Its not even based on JEEBUS, its a long winded diatribe about legal technicalities and how the Supreme Court is engaging in "judicial tyranny" and basically should be arrested and sentenced to death. ( seriously. )

I worry about where your dad's reading habits. -.-
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Old 09-05-2015, 07:19 PM
Aragarthiel Aragarthiel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfie View Post
If the job requirements go against your religious beliefs, don't take the fucking job.
This bothers me. When she took the job, she didn't know that she would eventually have to issue marriage licenses to gay couples. Her job requirements changed while she was there, and she objects to the new requirement. This muddles things a bit, IMO. Where it went wrong was that she did everything in her power to make sure these couples couldn't get married. Even now, from jail, she is saying that the marriage licenses that have been issued in her absence are void, since they have her name on them. I'm sure a marriage license has NEVER been issued while she was on vacation or taking a day off.
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Old 09-05-2015, 08:22 PM
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catcul catcul is offline
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Originally Posted by Aragarthiel View Post
When she took the job, she didn't know that she would eventually have to issue marriage licenses to gay couples.
That doesn't matter one bit. Some of my employers have changed my job functions on me at the last minute. In my current job, my main duties were to load servers in the office. I've had to install servers on the road with 3 days notice. I've also had to go on the road for the entire month of July.

When you take a job, you have to know that your job can change as your employer needs. I have found that out the hard way.
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Old 09-05-2015, 08:52 PM
Aragarthiel Aragarthiel is offline
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Originally Posted by catcul View Post
When you take a job, you have to know that your job can change as your employer needs.
I know that, my comment was aimed more at the statement that if you can't do a job, then don't take it. She took the job fully able to do it, but it's a bit unfair to suggest that she quit because she can no longer do all of the functions of her job. The reason doesn't matter so much, it can be a religious thing like in her case, or it may be a physical limitation as in others. It's not fair to suggest that someone quit their job because they're in a wheelchair and their boss suddenly demands that they have to climb a ladder to get things off of the top shelf for customers. Religious freedoms are protected as well as physical limitations, and an accommodation could be made for her. She was the one who refused that accommodation by forbidding her entire office from giving out marriage licenses instead of saying "Here's someone who can do it instead."
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Old 09-05-2015, 08:53 PM
protege protege is offline
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Originally Posted by Gravekeeper View Post
I worry about where your dad's reading habits. -.-
Since leaving my mom last March, he's gone off the rails. He's spent the past 40 years lying and gaslighting everyone...it was only a matter of time before he managed to gaslight himself. He's managed to warp his own reality. Doesn't surprise me really--isolation can do strange things to one's mind.

Earlier today, he was going on about how Davis shouldn't be locked up...when people like Jane Fonda aren't
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Old 09-06-2015, 12:08 AM
s_stabeler s_stabeler is offline
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Originally Posted by Aragarthiel View Post
I know that, my comment was aimed more at the statement that if you can't do a job, then don't take it. She took the job fully able to do it, but it's a bit unfair to suggest that she quit because she can no longer do all of the functions of her job. The reason doesn't matter so much, it can be a religious thing like in her case, or it may be a physical limitation as in others. It's not fair to suggest that someone quit their job because they're in a wheelchair and their boss suddenly demands that they have to climb a ladder to get things off of the top shelf for customers. Religious freedoms are protected as well as physical limitations, and an accommodation could be made for her. She was the one who refused that accommodation by forbidding her entire office from giving out marriage licenses instead of saying "Here's someone who can do it instead."
Except that that's not what Davis got sent to jail for- indeed, as long as she allows her deputies to issue marriage licenses to gay people, she would be immediately released. What got Davis sent to jail was that the accommodation she is trying to insist upon is that no marriage licenses be issued by her office to gay people. It's the equivalent of that wheelchair user insisting on (say) the entire building they worked in be remodeled to only be on a single floor, for example, rather than lifts being installed so that said wheelchair user can get up to a different floor.

Or put it this way: an accommodation for religious freedoms CANNOT require people not of said religion to obey the strictures of said religion. ( to give another example, Islam teaches that you should not eat pork (among other things)- if you worked at an abattoir, a reasonable accommodation would be to have said person only slaughter animals that are going to be sold as halal. An unreasonable accommodation would be for the abattoir to only sell halal meat because of this one employee.)

IOW, Kim Davis can refuse to issue marriage licenses all she likes- HOWEVER, she has to allow provision to be made for those licenses to be issued. hence the offered compromise of her allowing her deputies to issue the marriage certificates. ( and also in case she ever gets the "smart" idea to mess with the schedule to try to make it difficult for gay people to get marriage licenses- that's JUST as illegal.)
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Old 09-06-2015, 02:01 AM
Gravekeeper Gravekeeper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aragarthiel View Post
I know that, my comment was aimed more at the statement that if you can't do a job, then don't take it. She took the job fully able to do it, but it's a bit unfair to suggest that she quit because she can no longer do all of the functions of her job.
It really isn't. She's an elected official of the government. A government which is secular and built on the foundation of the separation of church and state. It's not like gay marriage is a surprise that just suddenly jumped out at anyone.

If you hold deep religious convictions, don't run for and than accept a position where you are expected to and required to put aside your personal beliefs to operate as a secular agent of the government. Plus, she only assumed office in Jan of this year so this possibility ( gay marriage ) was clearly on the horizon.

You might have a point if this was a private business that suddenly took a religious turn. But this is a government position and operating as a secular entity is a cornerstone to the entire basis of the US government despite what right wing nutjobs like her seem to believe.
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Old 09-06-2015, 02:02 AM
Gravekeeper Gravekeeper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by protege View Post
Earlier today, he was going on about how Davis shouldn't be locked up...when people like Jane Fonda aren't
....Jane Fonda? I'm almost too scared to ask. Almost. >.>
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