Go Back   Fratching! > General > Social Woes

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes

  #21  
Old 07-25-2018, 12:37 AM
D_Yeti_Esquire's Avatar
D_Yeti_Esquire D_Yeti_Esquire is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 569
Default

Quote:
first of all, it's (usually) got nothing to do with someone being "properly hunky".
I don't want to come off as concern trolling here (truth be told I have no problem with anything you said after this), but I think this kind of response tends to be a bit of a derailment.

The problem as I see it is, like a lot of other things we've scientifically studied, attractiveness in men and women simply should be taken for what it is - something that manipulates the reaction of the person interacting. We see it in all sorts of things such as blind testing such as trustworthiness (is this person friendly or creeping) or ambition. We've seen it in testing where people intuit honesty from very superficial things.

I just don't think trying to derail someone's response of "unless their good looking" is even worthwhile because we know scientifically there are all sorts of ramifications attached to physical attractiveness even if its just a nice face. So when I see it, I'm almost always thinking you may have another person on the receiving end that just shuts down because it literally suggest their experience (most people have had ample opportunity just to see anecdotal differences in reaction between attractive and unattractive people) and kills any common ground at all. I guess long story short, I don't find whether the statement is true or untrue is a thing helpful.

Like I'm an average-ish person with several good looking friends. I've "seen" the difference in even something as simple as saying hello and only hello.

Namely, I just thing what is and isn't sexual harassment is it's own topic. It is a given that both many men and many women can and will forgive overstepping based on their receptivity to a person. And that visible experience can and should inform some level of the discussion but not be used to derail either side's opinion.
Reply With Quote

  #22  
Old 07-25-2018, 01:45 PM
Canarr Canarr is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 882
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackfaire View Post
Asking a person to continue a conversation over coffee is neither a date nor sexual harassment and presumably came after a period of treating them like an interesting person and not someone you're looking to screw.
Okay... looks to me like we're closer in opinion than it seems at first glance. So, asking someone out whom you have just met is okay, as long as there is some sort of conversation that precedes the actual invitation? The kind of conversation that indicates some sort of mutual interest, I mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackfaire View Post
No. Declining to tell the person that you're seeking to get to know better that "Hey guess what I think I want to bang you" isn't disingenuous.

It's common decency. Guess what you can know someone for years never see them that way then one day something clicks and you realize you would like to go out on a date so you ask this person you know, "Hey do you want to go to dinner sometime as my date" and boom they say yes or no.
Yes, you can suddenly see someone as a romantic interest whom you have only known as a friend or coworker for years. That does happen, and I've stated as much before. What I was talking about is the other end of the spectrum - you meet someone, and there is instant attraction. Love at first sight, so to speak. It may not be the majority of relationships that start out this way, but at least a solid minority. IMO, of course.

Hence my question: you get a new coworker, or a new person starts working out in your healthclub, or whereever, and you feel instant attraction. You start a conversation, try to get to know her, the way you would with any other new person in those surroundings; but she isn't any person, she's someone you're attracted to, and that *does* color both your perceptions and your behavior. Do you allow your attraction to enter the conversation immediately? Not say, "Hey, wanna bang?", but compliment her, flirt a little? Or do you carefully conceal any indication of your attraction until you feel you know her well enough to ask her out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackfaire View Post
The first things out of your mouth when you talk to a person shouldn't be "I want to date you" the first encounter shouldn't be all about getting that date.

We are talking about every day encounters.

The proper way

20 minute conversation on a bus ride getting to know this person "Wow that was really interesting I like talking to you would you like to continue this in a more casual relaxed setting" Not sexual harassment no one is calling this sexual harassment.

"Wow you look interesting I like your laugh, want to get coffee with me" sexual harassment. Absolutely sexual harassment the person has taken zero effort to get to know that person and is immediately putting the person.

I keep focusing on the "get to know someone first" I have repeatedly tried to make it clear that this doesn't have to be a long process.
No, the first thing out of your mouth shouldn't be "I want to date you". But if the first encounter is a random, every day encounter, where you don't know if you're actually ever going to see that person again, then how can it *not* be about "getting that date"? Unless you manage to arrange another meeting, or exchange phone numbers, there's a good chance that first encounter is also going to be the last.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackfaire View Post
It does have to actually happen though. If you meet someone in any of those situations you stated and your immediate reaction is "Hi would you go out with me" you have officially sexually harassed a person.
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackfaire View Post
If you attempt a conversation and the person was clearly not interested in continuing the conversation and then you ask them to continue it anyway you're harassing them.
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackfaire View Post
However that is where the work part comes in. Your position at the company comes into play. If they themselves are at work and you're a customer.

Those situations are limiting in that they are being paid to be nice to you whether because you're a co-worker whom they also need to do their job or a superior that can fire them.
I'm with you that hitting on people working at stores you frequent is... not a great thing. Depends a lot on the business in question, and how they expect their people to treat customers. Easy to make someone feel pressured to avoid a "Not interested, thank you" in order to keep their job.

However, among coworkers, I think advocating for a no-dating rule isn't a realistic proposal. If you follow the link I copied a few posts ago, it shows that 30% of relationships start at work, so apparently, it's something that people like to do. A lot.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jackfaire View Post
What women, and men would be too, sick of is people constantly coming up to them for the sole purpose of scoring a date. Yes I think if a woman came up to you and started a conversation that wasn't about getting to know you and was all about scoring a date with you because you're hot/cute then yes that is sexual harassment.

A person however genuinely interested in getting to know you that backs off if you're clearly not interested in getting to know them isn't harassing anyone and won't be accused of it.
I'm not sure that disctinction is quite as clear as you seem to think it is. Especially if you subscribe to this thread's title that basically says, "Harassment is whatever you feel it is".
__________________
"You are who you are on your worst day, Durkon. Anything less is a comforting lie you tell yourself to numb the pain." - Evil
"You're trying to be Lawful Good. People forget how crucial it is to keep trying, even if they screw it up now and then." - Good
Reply With Quote

  #23  
Old 08-02-2018, 10:20 AM
Canarr Canarr is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 882
Default

Obama seems to disagree with the premise of this thread.

"And you can’t do it if you insist that those who aren’t like you—because they’re white, or because they’re male—that somehow there’s no way they can understand what I’m feeling, that somehow they lack standing to speak on certain matters."
__________________
"You are who you are on your worst day, Durkon. Anything less is a comforting lie you tell yourself to numb the pain." - Evil
"You're trying to be Lawful Good. People forget how crucial it is to keep trying, even if they screw it up now and then." - Good
Reply With Quote

  #24  
Old 08-02-2018, 01:36 PM
HEMI6point1 HEMI6point1 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 259
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canarr View Post
Obama seems to disagree with the premise of this thread.

"And you can’t do it if you insist that those who aren’t like you—because they’re white, or because they’re male—that somehow there’s no way they can understand what I’m feeling, that somehow they lack standing to speak on certain matters."
When people tell me I "lack standing" to speak on a certain topic, I tell them to go kick rocks. Or pound sand. Then say my piece anyway.
__________________
AKA sld72382 on customerssuck.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 10:26 AM.


vBulletin skins developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.