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So because one person out of a whole group committs a serious crime....
  #1  
Old 08-22-2018, 02:56 AM
HEMI6point1 HEMI6point1 is offline
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Default So because one person out of a whole group committs a serious crime....

Mollie Tibbetts murder

Here's one thing everyone can agree on: What happened to Mollie Tibbetts is heinous and her killer needs to be punished accordingly.

That being said, as soon as the news broke of who her killer was I went to the comments section of said news sites and said to myself, "let the racist comments begin." Lots of hate thrown the way at undocumented immigrants over the act of one person.

The fact is, undocumented / illegal immigrants commit crimes at a lower rate than legal US residents or citizens - See here. Let's face it, if the murder was committed by a white guy no one would bat an eye and the news of her passing would disappear after 1 day. But because it was committed by an undocumented immigrant with brown skin, there has to be racist outrage thrown at an entire group of people with continuous news coverage.... especially on a network that is named after a certain animal.
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Old 08-28-2018, 11:34 AM
mjr mjr is offline
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Originally Posted by HEMI6point1 View Post
The fact is, undocumented / illegal immigrants commit crimes at a lower rate than legal US residents or citizens - See here.
PEDANTIC ALERT! PEDANTIC ALERT!

illegal:
adjective
forbidden by law or statute.
contrary to or forbidden by official rules, regulations, etc.

Regardless of where they came from, they have committed a crime by being here, whether voluntarily (they chose to cross/overstay a visa) or involuntarily (being brought here as children/accidentally overstaying a visa).

Seriously...I think the U.S. is the only country in the Western world that allows this to happen. Even Canada is starting to get sick of it.
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Old 08-28-2018, 02:46 PM
s_stabeler s_stabeler is offline
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While not exactly wrong, the point is that the only crime the average illegal immigrant commits is the illegal immigration. While some of the anti-immigration rhetoric would have you believe that they come over to live a life of crime.

Also, lets be clear on one point. Nobody believes that illegal immigration is a good thing. However, it's recognised that since there isn't the budget to deport all illegal immigrants, then it's better to target deportions at those who are actually breaking the law. Talk of amnesty is basically simply acknowledging that since immigrants covered under said amnesty are those there's no point in deporting anyway (since they are fundamentally law-abiding) then it's better to allow them a path to becoming legal immigrants than leave them in a position that frankly, is the worst of both worlds.
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Old 08-28-2018, 02:52 PM
Canarr Canarr is offline
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Actually, a first offense is only a misdemeanor.

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Originally Posted by HEMI6point1 View Post
That being said, as soon as the news broke of who her killer was I went to the comments section of said news sites and said to myself, "let the racist comments begin." Lots of hate thrown the way at undocumented immigrants over the act of one person.
Don't worry - the true culprits have already been identified. It's not about foreigner violence, or illegal alien violence. It's about male violence.
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Old 08-28-2018, 03:00 PM
mjr mjr is offline
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Originally Posted by s_stabeler View Post
While not exactly wrong, the point is that the only crime the average illegal immigrant commits is the illegal immigration.
Which means 100% of them committed a crime. Correct?

It's a misdemeanor, and most of us probably inadvertently commit one or two a day, if we really think about it, but you get my point.

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Nobody believes that illegal immigration is a good thing.
We will agree to disagree on that point.

Quote:
However, it's recognised that since there isn't the budget to deport all illegal immigrants, then it's better to target deportions at those who are actually breaking the law.
Ok. But they've already broken at least one law. As stated above.

Quote:
Talk of amnesty is basically simply acknowledging that since immigrants covered under said amnesty are those there's no point in deporting anyway (since they are fundamentally law-abiding) then it's better to allow them a path to becoming legal immigrants than leave them in a position that frankly, is the worst of both worlds.
Ok. Let's talk about "legal immigrants". How do you explain that to the actual legal immigrants who see people "jumping the line" and not having to go through the same process? I have a friend who came here legally from England. He's got a "resident alien" card. How is letting someone jump the line fair to him?

And I'm sorry, but you don't get citizenship if you're here illegally. I'd likely be OK with "resident alien" status (i.e. the so-called "green card"), but sorry, you don't get to be a citizen. I'm willing to make exceptions, but I would have to think about the circumstances.

I don't see anything wrong with that.

Last edited by mjr; 08-28-2018 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 08-28-2018, 06:11 PM
s_stabeler s_stabeler is offline
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That depends on how an amnesty is structured. For instance, you could always structure it that you don't get a Green Card, you just have a temporary residence, and a certain # each year can receive a green card- the same process anybody else has to go through, just with you already being in the US.

And Green Card status more-or-less automatically allows citizenship after 5 years.
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Old 08-28-2018, 06:34 PM
mjr mjr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s_stabeler View Post
That depends on how an amnesty is structured. For instance, you could always structure it that you don't get a Green Card, you just have a temporary residence, and a certain # each year can receive a green card- the same process anybody else has to go through, just with you already being in the US.
But you and I both know the Federal government wouldn't do it that way. And what do you do about the ones that just decide not to get a green card?

Quote:
And Green Card status more-or-less automatically allows citizenship after 5 years.
I don't think this is the case. My friend has been here for over five years. He still can't vote (because green card holders cannot vote), and he still has to get it renewed in the near future -- which isn't cheap AFAIK.
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  #8  
Old 08-29-2018, 06:53 AM
Tanasi Tanasi is offline
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Just being here for five years with a green card doesn't confer the right to vote. They must apply for citizenship, pass the back-ground-check, interviews, pass a test and then take the oath of loyalty. I've been to a few of the oath ceremonies as I have family and friends that became citizens. In some instances they're allowed to maintain citizenship to both countries.
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Old 08-29-2018, 03:52 PM
s_stabeler s_stabeler is offline
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that's what I meant- all green card holders are entitled to apply for citizenship, there's no "permenant resident but ineligible for citizenship" status.

anyway, as for the ones who decide not to get a Green Card, that's kind of unlikely, but does it really matter? If they don't, they'd be like anyone else on a work visa or student visa. Someone on one fo those isn't considered a problem if they don't seek a GC, so why would a formerly-illegal immigrant?

Oh, and one more point- there's already a mechanism for illegal immigrants that have been in the country since a certain date to get a green card (it's currently if they entered before 1974) and the mechanism has been there since the 1920s. So all most immigration reform proponents want to do is allow more recent immigrants to use that method.(say, if an immigrant has been here 15 years or so?)
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  #10  
Old 08-30-2018, 01:56 PM
mjr mjr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s_stabeler View Post
there's no "permenant resident but ineligible for citizenship" status.
But should there be?
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