Maybe we should all be rude?

[jackfaire]

If I see two people having a conversation in public I do not interrupt their conversation to talk to them about something I want to give them.

If I see a person standing visibly not doing anything no earbuds in ears I would approach that person.

If I see a person reading a book or watching something on a screen or listening to music shutting out the world I do not interrupt them either.

However many people seem to think that not only should the third person be treated like the second but that if they don't immediately drop whatever it is they are doing to engage the person wishing for their attention then they are being rude.

It's something that's bothered me for years and I am wondering why so many people don't seem bothered by it?

Things that make me "rude" the following are things that I do and either while doing them or mentioning I do them inevitably someone will tell me that I am rude and should be more polite.

1) I do not answer my door. At this time I have 2 good friends who might stop by my house. They would not do so without letting me know first. Even if they are on their way they would text me to let me know they are on their way. My "don't answer the door" policy goes back over a decade. There is always someone telling me this is rude that there is a social contract that someone knocks and I answer the door. I do not adhere to that.

2) if I am watching/reading/listening. i have been told repeatedly that it's rude for me to ignore the person trying to get my attention. Side Note it's mildly annoying when they're just wanting to chat. It's infuriating when they want me to do all of the information gathering for them i.e. "When is the next train coming? How do I get to (destination)

3) If I object to being insulted, to others being insulted, to insulting comments. If I stand up for anyone.

The last one truly boggles my mind. I would say my opinions on rudeness and politeness are greatly informed by two sources. The first being V.C. Andrews books the main character goes through a lot of pain and suffering that could be avoided if they were willing to tell their family to fuck off.

The second is from women who when being catcalled, told to smile, or in any other way having their person encroached upon if they object to said treatment they are told "Jeez it was a compliment you don't have to be rude"

Over the years this has led me to believe there is a distinct difference between being Nice and being Polite. Being nice means don't be a dick to someone for no reason. Being Polite seems to mean "don't stand up for yourself" "accept that everyone else has more rights to your life and body than you do"

So maybe we should all be rude?

[s_stabeler]

The key word is "in public"- with a couple of exceptions, if you are in a public area, then it's considered ignoring the other person not to reply to them at all.

I don't entirely disagree about #3, though you do need to be careful about objecting to insults to other people. (I say you need to be careful, because it can come across as you deciding something is insulting to somebody without knowing if it actually is or not)

[Canarr]

What s_stabeler said.

If a stranger comes up to you and tries to initiate a conversation, it is considered rude to simply ignore them. However, it would be entirely okay to politely decline their attempt to make smalltalk by saying, "I'm sorry, but I'm not interested in conversation right now:", or something to that effect. Alternatively, if they ask about some logistical issue like time or place of their train, it would be perfectly acceptable to politely, but pointedly, refer them to the posted train schedules.

But yes: if someone tries to talk to you (provided they're not themselves rude about it), then you are the one who's being rude by ignoring them. It is completely okay to refuse someone's claim on your time, but it should be done politely.

Being catcalled, per your other example, is rude. Consequently, an equally rude response is justified - whether ignoring, calling back, calling them an asshole, flipping the bird or whatever.
Whether or not a third party should get involved in such a situation on the side of the catcalled woman, that is tricky. If I saw someone (of whatever gender) be physically harassed, impeded, threatened, followed or whatever, I would get involved - make sure that the offending party knows there are witnesses who aren't on their side, call the police, whatever. But if the interaction is just verbal, and/or at a distance, with no immediate threat, I would stay out of it. One, you never know if any interference is appreciated; and two, it might be your involvement that escalates the situation.

[jackfaire]

Half the time if i am watching a show I can't even hear the person until I hear them suddenly loudly talking about how rude I am.

I get where people are coming from on just ignoring but if the person has ear buds/head phones on and is looking intently at something book/phone/tablet then I would define the person that is clearly attempting to interrupt them or make small talk as the person being rude.

Yes even in public. To me that's the same as interrupting a conversation.

It's like walking up to a girl and hitting on her in a book store because her girl and you want date. If a person is visibly engaged in an activity it shouldn't be treated as if they are rude because they don't drop everything to engage you.

[s_stabeler]

It's more that it's considered ruder to -seemingly- deliberately ignore somebody than it is to interrupt them doing something in public.

Or, t put it simpler: it's considered an obligation of the person wanting to watch a show or read a book to find somewhere they won't be disturbed, not an obligation of bystanders to leave them alone.

[Canarr]

Half the time if i am watching a show I can't even hear the person until I hear them suddenly loudly talking about how rude I am. .

How often does that happen to you? Not doubting you, just genuinely curious. I'm commuting to work by bus and train, so I spend some time waiting at stations every day, and most of the time I'll either be reading, listening to music, or both. While I have occasionally been talked to by people, no one has ever tried to do that without stepping into my line of sight first, or tapping me on the shoulder. No one has ever just tried talking to me while I have headphones in my ears.

Well, except for beggars. They'll mostly talk to anyone in range, but I'm guessing that's just part of the shtick.

I get where people are coming from on just ignoring but if the person has ear buds/head phones on and is looking intently at something book/phone/tablet then I would define the person that is clearly attempting to interrupt them or make small talk as the person being rude.

Yes even in public. To me that's the same as interrupting a conversation.

I get what you're saying; but that isn't the standard in society. You don't have an expecation of privacy when you're in a public place. If you're out there, people can reasonably expect to be able to interact with you, as long as they're polite about it. At the very least, you're supposed to equally politely decline the interaction.

Of course, if they employ inadequate methods to gain your attention, it's not your fault if you don't notice them. But that's just stupiditiy, and that is hard to counteract...

It's like walking up to a girl and hitting on her in a book store because her girl and you want date. If a person is visibly engaged in an activity it shouldn't be treated as if they are rude because they don't drop everything to engage you.

I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to hit on a girl - or a guy - in a bookstore, as long as you're being polite about it. And as long as you get the hint about leaving them alone if they ask about it.

Again: trying to talk to people in public isn't bad, or rude, in itself. Persisting after you've been asked to stop is when we start veering into harassment territory. But going, "Hey, I've read that book; it's not so great, honestly. But if you're into [Genre], I'd be happy to make some recommendations." should be okay. Provided you back off after getting a polite "No, thanks."

[jackfaire]

It happens to me quite frequently actually. Normally I am looking down and I get hyper-focused on what I am reading or watching. People rarely tap my shoulder instead what they do is step into my vicinity start talking at me and then get mad at me when I don't respond when 9 times out of 10 I had no clue they were even trying to talk to me.

One time an old guy waited BEHIND me for me to scoot over so he could sit. He never tapped me on the shoulder or tried to get my attention. I realized he was there when someone in front of me pointed at him.

It happens at least once a month that I notice and I am sure there are many times that people have been talking at me when I couldn't hear them. Usually I use noise cancelling Ear buds because a lot of the Train stops are near busy roads and traffic is noisy.

I have gotten better about people and public now that I don't deal with them for work. I used to work in Customer Service and was on my way to or from dealing with customers 8 hours a day. That commute was the only time I didn't have to deal with other people unless I wanted to as I always have roommates.

I am sure that's part of what put me on edge.

But the whole politeness thing extends beyond "you can turn people away"

Because the truth of the matter is that you can't turn people away. It's flat out considered Rude for a girl to reject a guy's advances in a bookstore. I get you don't think it is nor do I but a lot of people do.

I was in a bookstore reading a book and was asked where something was that I not being an employee didn't know. My directing them to an employee led to them telling me I was being rude.

My telling fellow passengers that I have literally no idea when the next bus is coming because I didn't check myself as usually unless I have a specific place to be at a specific time I only care that a bus is coming not when.

I guess my complaint is less "normal" politeness and rather the fact that some people feel that anything short of you jumping to handle all of their wants and needs like a servant is rude.

Tell someone to call the company (Rude)

Tell someone you don't know the answer (Rude)

Don't smile if you're a woman (Rude)

Tell someone anything they don't want to hear (Rude)

Be an individual with your own thoughts feelings emotions (Rude)

Politeness often seems to be accepting their behavior and speech no matter how abhorrent it is because they treated you like shit in a pleasant tone of voice.

I have seen a friend get reamed for losing her cool with her cousin when the cousin in a pleasant tone of voice called her a piece of shit mom who should lose her child.

So there are times I dislike the whole of society getting to decide what counts as polite versus the individual.

[Blue Ginger]

It happens to me quite frequently actually. Normally I am looking down and I get hyper-focused on what I am reading or watching. People rarely tap my shoulder instead what they do is step into my vicinity start talking at me and then get mad at me when I don't respond when 9 times out of 10 I had no clue they were even trying to talk to me.

This is me when I have a good book in my hands. The whole world could end and I wouldn't even notice and that's without having earbuds in. When I have book and music, the universe could explode and I wouldn't notice.

The amount of times I have had people get shitty because I haven't noticed them is unreal. Doesn't happen so much now but that's because I'm not on public transport as often.

I have had people slam their hand on my book because I didn't realise they were talking to me. I had one guy not understand the concept of 'I am not interested' when I told him to leave me alone and opened my book again. I have watched people walk past everyone else only to interrupt 2 or 3 people talking to ask something that would have taken 2 seconds to notice themselves, eg: what station is this? What line is this on?

I had one woman yank on my earbud cord to ask when the next train was arriving. In this case there was a staff member 10 feet away and a rolling sign 5 feet the other way with the countdown to the next arrival. She got shitty when I just pointed to the sign and told her to get away from me. It was a near empty platform and she walked right past the staff member to ask me. The TFL uniform really stands out too.

I think in some cases, they are clueless idiots that are also tourists, or outside their normal area, so they are looking for people that might be able to help or at least speak the same language. They are still rude for interrupting though. The rest are just rude idiots.

And I do the not answering the door thing too. At my parents place, the only people who would come to the front door were sales people or religious people. Everyone else knew to go to the door off the driveway. I could sit in the lounge and see who it was. Unless it was a delivery person or someone I knew, they could ring the bell until the cows came home but I wouldn't answer.

[telecom_goddess]

I'm the same way, I always commute with headphones on, or looking at my phone, and I'm never interested in talking to people, yet they insist that I must cause they want to. As for the door I very rarely get people knocking that I don't expect thankfully! Although the delivery people could stand to actually KNOCK on the damn door instead of tapping on it, cause I won't hear that.

[Canarr]

Politeness often seems to be accepting their behavior and speech no matter how abhorrent it is because they treated you like shit in a pleasant tone of voice.

I have seen a friend get reamed for losing her cool with her cousin when the cousin in a pleasant tone of voice called her a piece of shit mom who should lose her child.

So there are times I dislike the whole of society getting to decide what counts as polite versus the individual.

Honsetly: most of your examples seem to feature the typical entitled asshole also often seen in stories on CS. That doesn't have as much to do with rude vs. polite as it has with them being, well, assholes.

Being polite doesn't mean saying rude things in a pleasant way; it means not saying rude things, period. However, there is also a difference between being rude and being harsh - the example with your friend and her cousin, for instance, depends a lot on whether or not she actually *is* a horrible mother.

If she is, then a family member saying so might fall into the category of "harsh, but true". If she isn't, then that same family member would easily be leaving "rude" territory and progressing directly into "okay, you're getting smacked for that".

In the end, society is always going to be deciding about the boundaries for behavior - which are acceptable, and which are not. Society - or rather, the respective grouo(s) you are moving in - will be judging individuals on their behavior, based on their own standards.

If you're meeting with a few close friends at home, then "Hey, doucheface, what's up?" might very well be an entirely acceptable form of greeting. If you're meeting your boss at your workplace, it probably isn't.

But any individual trying to go alone against (their) society's standards probably isn't going to be a happy person.

[jackfaire]

The problem in that one is she's not a horrible mother and most of the family doesn't agree with her cousin's assessment but they definitely felt it was rude for her to get mad when her cousin was being pleasant.

[TheCheerfulTreeRat]

How to talk to a woman wearing headphones gives lots of handy tips on how to talk to women (who may be rude enough to try to ignore you). You'll have to page down through a lot of supportive comments to get to the actual article itself.
It's quite amazing.