Is spanking supported by the Bible?

[Ree]

People who are supporters of spanking may argue that spanking is supported by the teachings of the Bible.

"He who spareth the rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him correcteth him betimes" (Proverbs 13:24)
"Withhold not correction from a child: for if thou strike him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and deliver his soul from hell." (Proverbs 23:13-14)

First of all, I am a Christian, but I do not accept every word that comes from the Bible as a solid base for my life.
It is certainly a guideline for how to live my life, but, in my opinion, to take every single word literally, and at face value, is a big mistake.

I happen to believe that the Bible, when all is said and done, was written by man, and not by God directly.

Yes, they were very wise and holy men of God, and it's believed that they turned to God for guidance in putting words to page, but, when all is said and done, they were mere mortals and therefore, fallible.

Also, the Bible was translated over the years, and for many years, the average people did not have a copy of the Bible. Only the Holy Men had access to the Bible, and they based their teachings on it.
Again, we are dealing with humans who are fallible, and we are dealing with their own interpretation of what was read.
Again, as Christians, we believe that God was the source and inspiration for their interpretations, but we also have to accept that there is a possibility that some may have just taken their own spin and ran with it.

Not only that, but we also have some slight division between the Old testament and the New testament, and Proverbs are part of the Old Testament.

Therefore, to take the verses from Proverbs as permission to beat our children into compliance, should they lose their mortal soul, is a very foolhardy thing to do.

The words of the Bible were written down in a different time when there was a belief that women and children were simply the property of men.

That is not the case in today's society, so to take those words and base one's parenting style on it would be the same as saying that a woman must be obedient to men and live her life so as to completely build up her father, brother or husband.

In my opinion, the Bible is meant to be used as a guideline for us to live our our lives, and is not meant to be taken literally as the definitive rules for living.

[jayel]

Thank you for starting the thread Ree.

I am too distracted to get into real detail right now. Quickly, my opinion re: 'spare the rod', is that the rod is not a rod to be beaten with, but more like a shepherd's crook, used to guide and lead one in the right direction.

I cannot imagine Jesus, who said "Suffer the children unto me" advocating, or encouraging anyone to physically inflict pain upon a child. He told children to obey parents, and parents not to frustrate their children. I imaging He would expect parents to discipline with love, kindness, understanding, and yes, even respect.

My parents raised me in a Christian home, and threw out that 'spare the rod' line whenever there was debate on the issue. I was not a bad child, I was not intentionally disobedient. I can remember ONE time ever doing something I had been spefically told not to do (14, borrowed a pair of mom's shoes that she told me not to. I lost one, and feel guilty about it to this day.)

So I was not a 'strong willed' child, and to be fair, I was not spanked often. But when I was, it was for doing things that I really didn't realize were wrong, but that angered my parents. For instance, I remember when I was around two we had a little toy piano. It was made to look like a real one, and it worked, but I think it was made of particle board. Anyway, the top piece had come off and my dad had repaired it with some staples. For whatever reason, I wanted to check and make sure it was really fixed, and when I pulled at the top piece, it came loose again. My dad, I guess angry because I broke it again after he had fixed it (though apparently not that well ) yelled at me, spanked me, and put me in my room.

So it's not like I pulled the piano apart to be destructive. In my two year old mind, I was checking to see if it was really fixed. Frustrating for parents, yes, but all it would have taken was for them to ask me why I did what I did, and they would have seen I did not do it with malicious intent.

Spanking without attempting to get to the root of a problem is just lazy parenting. And I would like to restate what I said in the other thread: Why is it considered by some to be acceptable to spank a very young child because they can't understand words, only physical pain, yet you would be arrested for striking an elderly person who is suffering from dimensia and exhibiting poor behavior?

[Ree]

Thank you for pointing out so many things that really hadn't occurred to me before as an argument against using the Bible as an excuse for spanking.

(I love that rod/shepherd's crook analogy.)

[guywithashovel]

When I was a teenager, I went to a church where the pastor was a staunch supporter of spanking. He would often state in his sermons that spanking was the only way to raise a child, and that anything else was bunk.

I don't think spanking is abusive if done right. However, I think that to say that it works for every kid is wrong. I've heard some parents say that spanking only makes the situation worse with their kids. Also, to say that it is the ONLY option is inaccurate.

However, that's not really what this thread is about. It's about whether the Bible supports spanking. I suppose that if you take the quoted scripture from Proverbs literally, then it does. Though you could also interpret that as a metaphor for providing proper discipline to your kids. Also, using Bible quotes as your only argument for spanking will cause some problems for you. The Bible may appear to endorse spanking, but it also admonishes people against eating shellfish and wearing mixed fabric. It also says that people should stone disobedient children to death. Regardless of your religious beliefs, it should be obvious that some things in scripture are simply not applicable---or even functional---in today's times. So, if you're arguing in favor of spanking, you need to put some other material in your persuasive arsenal aside from passages from scripture.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I dunno, I don't see that as literal. I kind of see "the rod" as general discipline. During that time period, I'm assuming some beatings were going on. The passage may have been a common saying, who knows?

I'm reading that passage as "failure to disipline leads to a spoiled child" not "beat your kid or else raise a brat."

I'm not a literalist.

[RootedPhoenix]

I think that it helps to step back and to try and see what they are trying to say. Sometimes timeless ideas are wrapped up in something that's from another time period.

I think it's just that you can't let your child have their way all the time. They need discipline and structure. I think that passage leaves room for someone to decide what "the rod" will be. "The rod" could be time out or the loss of privileges, or something else, but if you don't discipline your child, he/she will be spoiled.

[HYHYBT]

I don't believe the Bible is particularly relevant for this purpose. It's a book about God, and about his relation to us, and does not work well forced into the role of a science textbook, psychology, etc. Not that it can't be helpful on general principles, but taking lines like "spare the rod, spoil the child" specifically to mean you should hit your children with a rod (rather than the more general "sometimes you have to punish them for their own good) would be like taking the verses on, say, killing a woman accused of being a nonvirgin bride if she can't produce the bloodstained sheets into modern law.

[Fashion Lad!]

Old Testament supports it
New Testament does not support it.

[jayel]

Can you back that up with scripture, Fashion Lad?

[Kalli]

I happen to believe that the Bible, when all is said and done, was written by man, and not by God directly.

Yes, they were very wise and holy men of God, and it's believed that they turned to God for guidance in putting words to page, but, when all is said and done, they were mere mortals and therefore, fallible.

Wow, I was JUST trying to think of a way to communicate this point exactly in the critical logic thread. I sort of half gave up and made the point very brief, I posted it and then read this right after! Weird.

You did a much better job of it than I, Ree. Then again, that's not difficult. I'm absolutely terrible at articulating thoughts, which is extremely frustrating when I have a valid point to make!

[crashhelmet]

Ree quoted where the Old Testament advocates Discipline. As for the New Testament, the only thing that comes to mind for me is Ephesians 6:4.

"And parents, never drive your children to resentment but bring them up with correction and advice inspired by the Lord."

This verse to me says discipline yes, abuse no. There's a fine line between the two, but that's better served for a different thread.

CH