Creationism/Intelligent Design

[AFPheonix]

Creationism has been around for a very long time. I was indoctrinated in from a very young age, and I was pretty confused for a long time, since I was being taught classic science in grade school and a literal translation of the creation story at home and at church.
Mom sent me to a christian jr. high and high school, I guess in the hopes that one of her kids would go be a missionary to India or something.
Anyways, the sections on origins of life in junior high science were pretty classic Creationist lies. Lies in a textbook, and we were being taught this with no irony whatsoever.
The poor Biology teacher in High School attempted to teach us classic evolution again, but at that point we had all been so indoctrinated all of our lives we weren't really listening.
It really wasn't until college that I finally got away from the influence of Creationism and could really think for myself that I figured out the truth of the matter, and frankly got quite angry.

Intelligent Design is a relatively new movement, simply because Creationism has been around so long now that people weren't paying attention to it anymore, and they needed to package it in a way that people who were discerning enough to see past Young Earth Creationism could still get sucked in with some lies and trickery.

[Boozy]

When I was in school, I learned about evolution in biology class.

Are you a Godless creature who does the devil's work and sacrifices babies under the full moon?

Because that's where the teaching of evolution leads.

[BookstoreEscapee]

Are you a Godless creature who does the devil's work and sacrifices babies under the full moon?

Because that's where the teaching of evolution leads.

Sure am!

OK, maybe not the sacrificing babies part...did you say something about devil's food cake? <goes off to find dessert>

[susfubb]

dang, what is it? I got a nose hair trimmer for Xmas and use it "religiously." My teeth are clean & I cannot get a single one of my IRL pals to tell my breath is bad. I only weigh 120 lbs (between 115-125) at 5'6" and dress ok (although I AM an unrepentant hippie).

So whu is it that i keep returning to threads day after day when I've posted an opinion, and the whole thread has just.. quit? I bathe or shower daily, wash my clothes after 1-2 wearings, my bed linens at least once a week, and pluck out that silly hair that pops out of my chinny-chin-chin whenever it damn well pleases, use my organic deodorant (Tom's beeswax) http://www.drugstore.com/qxp38646_33..._calendula.htm

So, am I the equivalent of the billy (oops, make that nanny) goat's gruff? ~jill

[AFPheonix]

It went on for another page and a half, it's just that this was kind of an older thread to begin with, and not too many people have made the pilgrimage from CS to help argue

[Seshat]

Most of the time, when we've said our piece and it doesn't look like anyone's got anything new to say, we tend to let what we've already said speak for us. Most of us only repeat ourselves when it's clear that someone probably hasn't read the old stuff.

[DexX]

I'm more agnostic these days, but back when I was a Christian, I never believed in Creationism. I always thought evolution happened exactly as science says it happened over billions of years because God wanted it to happen. Evolution is a result of natural laws, and God made those natural laws. Argument over. Lots of Christians believe this, and it means there is no argument to have, because how do you prove that an entirely natural process was originally set up by an invisible deity? It's like trying to prove that God jump-started the big bang.

[Seshat]

DexX, that's pretty much how my parents helped my brother and I reconcile our Sunday School learning and our school science classes. Another option we had that they helped us lead ourselves to is 'God got better as he went along'.

We'd both had the experience of slowly learning to make things ourselves - for instance, learning to sew by punching holes in paper, then making simple clothes, and gradually working towards more complicated clothes. So someone - even an omnipotent someone - slowly improving and refining a design made sense to us.

[BookstoreEscapee]

I've been looking through a book of jokes by various comedians at work (while I wait for Access to decide it's not going to do what I want...) and have come across several that are apropos for the handful of threads I have become involved in here...


They're trying to get creationism taught in schools as a science. Creationism taught in schools as a science. Other than the obvious and only objection, it's not one . . . -Bill Hicks

[susfubb]

The frightening thing is that mass stupidity snowballs very quickly, because stupid people with no imaginations often have a tendency to hate smart people. Observe how in many parts of the US the term "college boy" is an insult. Too much pride in "simple-mindedness" and too much resentment of intellectuals fuels a national anti-intellectual political environment. Electing a clown like Bush is only a mild symptom; Pol Pot's killing fields are the ultimate destination.

To DexX: _ as you can see, I am a newbie, and I have no idea whether members are posting to subjects (including my comments), replying directly to me, or excluding me.

So, I'd like to applaud your observations about the "snowballing of mass stupidity." However, I'd like to add that our education systems are not as responsible as many like to 'believe.'

Simply open a major newspaper and read several headlines & an article or two. The "massive stupidity" is immediately evident in lack of editing, atrocious grammar, misspellings, apostrophe abuse, and misinformation that is seldom (if ever) corrected. Even ONE of the constantly confusing "upcoming" headlines on major network news shows would have gotten me a failing grade back in my HS/ college days in the 60-70's.

The news media seems to have adopted as "hip" such language as pronoun abuse, split infinitives, the frequent use of "so s/he says & so then I says," "like," "yanno," (sometimes every other word) - oh the plethora of ANTI-educational terms is endless.

So please don't blame our teachers for all of this idiocy. It seems "popular" these days to kow-tow to the very lowest denominator ("common" or not). *sigh*

It was difficult enough for ESL students learning to speak "English" - I pity them for waht must be herculean efforts today. ~jill

[susfubb]

To BookstoreEscapee: You are absolutely correct, and the attempt to force particular religions' versions of "miracle creationism" is not limited to the Bible Belt, Pennsylvania, nor any other locale.

In fact, one of the first instances of creationists winning a majority on a school board & trying to enforce their views upon ALL children was right down the road from us in Vista, CA. It was cover news in "Time Magazine" http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...3140-2,00.html
the NYTimes http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...5BC0A965958260
etc. etc. This dominated/ overwhelmed all media beforel the Vista citizens were able to mount a SPEEDY & successful recall campaign. Meanwhile, this majority tried to FIRE all science teachers unwilling to agree to their agenda, and refused to allow Nobel Prize winners & other prominent speakers who showed up at School Board meetings to speak. ~jill

[susfubb]

Again to escapee. it's probably been copy/pasted here many times (if so, I'll search harder, k?). Still, I thought this one was pretty good:

Jesus and Satan were having an ongoing argument about who was better on his computer. They had been going at it for days, and God was tired of the constant bickering.

Finally, God said, "Cool it. I am going to set up a test that will run for two hours, and I will judge who does the better job."

So Satan and Jesus sat down at the keyboards and typed away.

That searhed.
They moused.
They spreadsheeted.
They reported.
They faxed.
They e-mailed.
They e-mailed with attachments.
They downloaded.
They did some genealogy reports.
They created labels and cards.
They did every known job.

And More.

Jesus worked with heavenly efficiency, and Satan was faster than hell.

But ten minutes before their time was up, lightning suddenly flashed across the sky, thunder rolled, rain poured, and, of course, the electricity went off.

Satan stared at his blank screen and screamed every curse word known in the
Underworld.

Jesus just sighed.

The electricity finally came back on, and each of them restarted their computers. Satan started searching frantically, screaming, "It's gone! It's all GONE! I lost everything when the power went out!"

Meanwhile, Jesus quietly started printing out all of his files.

Satan observed this and became irate. "Wait! He cheated! How did he do it?"

God shrugged and said, "Jesus Saves."

[DexX]

So please don't blame our teachers for all of this idiocy. It seems "popular" these days to kow-tow to the very lowest denominator ("common" or not). *sigh*

Oh, trust me, I would not even think of blaming teachers for this state of affairs. It's all politics, and I know that teachers do the best they can with the resources provided to them.

[susfubb]

More jokes here, some good, some OK & some bleah: http://www.weirdity.com/jokes/creationism.shtml

2005 Pennsylvania: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmil...chool_District http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmil...chool_District

I was reading about David Crandall, former South Dakota GOP representative, and found that he is a convicted pedophile STILL speaking worldwide on the subject: http://66.42.196.197:50002/search/De...dall&search=Go

OK. I spent over 5 years as my primary web (and home) page being Yahoo's debate club: <achristianvsatheistgroup> I was neither an atheist NOR a Christian, nor was I a member of ANY of the organized religions, which I firmly believe have been the WORST bane of mankind in (currently) recorded history. I have 43 semester credit hours (GPA 3.87 in those) invested in the subject of religious/ biblical history and anthropology. If you wish to review my posts in the above club, access "susfubb" as author in an advanced search.

Otherwise, I will happy to discuss, courteously, any related issue with any member here - in whatever forum is most appropriate. I am not here to make enemies, everyone. I am here to build bridges to unite us all. ~jill

[susfubb]

Cripe - I spent at least 45 minutes finding joke links & explaining my position on organized religion. Then I saw a misspelling (no biggie, but still..) & tried to correct & repost. Now it seems my entire post is lost.
I need some help in how to use this forum... ~jill