Gay Marriage

[Spiffy McMoron]

Leviticus also says that you should not eat shell fish, sit on the same stool a menstruating woman has sat on, or re use a pot a dead lizard has fallen into. Leviticus also castrated himself long before anesthetic was invented. Now, tell me again why a single word of Leviticus is applicable to modern life?

True, but don't we all pick and choose what parts of the Bible was follow? Yes, I'll agree that what you listed is silly. But how do we distinguish what doesn't work (We shouldn't eat shellfish) to something that we all agree on (Thou shalt not kill/steal/etc.)?

For the record, I support equal right for homosexuals, but not because of out-of-context arguements and counter-arguements.

[Seshat]

And why should a line in a religious book dictate law in a country which states that one of its core values is the principle of a separation between church and state?

Because something like 70% of USA is Christian (don't quote me on that exact number). Since their religion tells them that it's icky, then they decide that they don't want it around them.

That's why it does, not why it should. If they care so much about separation of church and state, religious books should not affect laws (except perhaps to serve as inspiration, since many religious books contain historical laws).

As you said, logic doesn't hold.

[BookstoreEscapee]

On the whole, Gay Marriage leads to Goat Marriage theme:

I came across this in a collection of jokes by various stand-up comedians.

We have this huge debate going on right now about same-sex marriage. There are people who are against it; there are people who are for it. Some people say, “Marriage is a union between a man and woman, and it’s always been that way, and it should always remain that way, and if we change it and it’s between two people of the same sex, then what’s next? Someone could marry a goat.” That’s where they go right away. These people scare me. And they think we’re weird. -Ellen DeGeneres

I like this one, too:

The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals, and 362 to heterosexuals. This doesn’t mean God doesn’t love heterosexuals; it’s just that they need more supervision. -Lynn Lavner

[DexX]

"OMG he wants to marry a goat!"

An underaged dead goat of the same gender!

[BookstoreEscapee]

An underaged dead goat of the same gender!

Oh, the horror! What comes next on the slippery slope?

I think I'll marry the tree in my front yard...

[Sylvia727]

That's why it does, not why it should.

Oh...were we looking for common sense and reason in minds that couldn't be pryed open with a crowbar?

The only other argument I've ever heard (besides "wrong" and "tradition") is majority rule.

[BookstoreEscapee]

Interesting twist on the gay marriage debate...what happens when you want to get divorced?

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/Story?id=4347231&page=2

The short version is, lesbian couple got married in Toronto, had 2 children (both carried by the same partner), and now live in New York. They want to divorce, there is a custody dispute as well, and the judge assigned to the case in New York State refused to dismiss the suit. The one partner insists that the marriage should simply be considered invalid because NY State does not allow gay marriage, therefore in the eyes of the state, they were never married in the first place.

Sorry, but if you want the right to marry, you have to accept the rules of divorce. You can't say "We have the right to marry like everyone else," and then say, "We shouldn't have to go through the legal divorce process because the state we now live in doesn't recognize our marriage. We can just pretend it never happened." Sorry, shouldn't work that way. I can understand the argument that if the state doesn't recognize the marriage it seems a bit hypocritical for the state to then adjudicate the divorce, but that doesn't make the marriage nonexistent in Canada where it was originally performed. If they don't want NY State to adjudicate it, they should have to go through the Canadian court to resolve the issues.

[Rapscallion]

Islamic law allows up to four wives. As far as I am aware, if a family with more than one wife comes from one of the islamic countries and resides in the UK, the wives are considered as being married to him for legal purposes.

Similar sort of thing.

Rapscallion

[tropicsgoddess]

I'm straight, but personally I think gay marriages should be legal and have the same rights that straight married couples have. We're all human, no matter if you like the opposite or same sex.

[SportinGoods]

(I just came across this today, I know that the previous post tags are from august, and I'm sorry but I had to reply :P)

First off My personal views: I've dated both sexes (One could even say I've dated in between sexes) , Have never considered myself gay or bi-sexual, I've loved each one in their own right, as a person, not a gender. That being said, heres a summary of the ongoing debate I have running with my mother.

I remember a time when my mother told me at 13 (when concerned about my tomboyish ways) "Are you a lesbian? If you are I will still love you" She really needed to elaborate on that statement.

My mother is a conservative, religion will be taken out of the equation mainly because I think she has learned by now, that thumping the bible on my head doesn't have the desired effect. From what I can gather according to our arguments these are her main oppositions to gay marriage.

1> Gay marriage is detrimental to the conservative idea of a family unit. Without a mother and a father (Figure) the child raised will turn out emotionally scarred and twisted.
(Until there has been a significant study on the effect of same sex parents on child development she will not waiver on this idea)
2> The amount of estrogen and progesterone in the tap water (along with soy products) Is causing boys to become "femanized". This increase in estrogen supply has caused more people to become "unnaturally" gay. She refuses to pay taxes for the alleged "nancyfication" of American men.
3> The Lesbian and Gay community has "forced" their beliefs on the American culture and in one decade has made the unthinkable acceptable. Just the mere idea that they are proud of this makes her ill.
4> Being Gay is now a trend (see above)
5> The tax breaks from marriage between a man and a woman should not be extended to a same sex relationship.

Thats an extreme conservative point of view, not my own of course but offered for debate.

[AFPheonix]

It's a view that if she bothered to do any research could be easily disproven. But then, that's typically the crux of the problem, isn't it? It's not so much that they want to know the truth, it's that they think they know the truth regardless of whether data supports it or not. It's the difference between people who wish to learn and those who are perfectly happy to remain ignorant.

It's sad, really.

[Seshat]

1> Gay marriage is detrimental to the conservative idea of a family unit. Without a mother and a father (Figure) the child raised will turn out emotionally scarred and twisted.

What about the children of widows? Divorcees?

What about marriages which don't have children?

(Until there has been a significant study on the effect of same sex parents on child development she will not waiver on this idea)

There almost certainly have been many such. I can't imagine that post-grad students in psychology, sociology and anthropology have left such a promising topic unstudied.

Whether she'd accept the studies is another matter.

2> The amount of estrogen and progesterone in the tap water (along with soy products) Is causing boys to become "femanized". This increase in estrogen supply has caused more people to become "unnaturally" gay. She refuses to pay taxes for the alleged "nancyfication" of American men.

Can she cite any studies?

3> The Lesbian and Gay community has "forced" their beliefs on the American culture and in one decade has made the unthinkable acceptable. Just the mere idea that they are proud of this makes her ill.

Forced?

One decade?

If it helps any: I don't know anyone in the LesBiGay community who would agree with the first sentence of that quote, much less be proud of it.

Pleased that they no longer have to hide for fear of brutalisation, yes. Proud of having achieved a measure of acceptance, yes.

Eh, she'd probably 'be ill' at that anyway.

My thoughts on the acceptance Les/Bi/Gay people have achieved is: would she prefer them to have to hide for fear of being physically beaten up, socially ostracised, and generally abused?

What would Jesus think? What would Jesus do?

Heck, what did Jesus do? According to the Gospels, he went out to the socially ostracised people and opened his arms to them, accepted them and treated them lovingly.

4> Being Gay is now a trend (see above)

. . .

I can't think of any way to dispute that that people like she seems to be would accept.

5> The tax breaks from marriage between a man and a woman should not be extended to a same sex relationship.

That's fine. I have no problem with no marriages or civil unions generating tax breaks. Equal treatment works for me.

Thats an extreme conservative point of view, not my own of course but offered for debate.

Not a problem. It does help to hear how they think.

[tropicsgoddess]

What about the children of widows? Divorcees?

What about marriages which don't have children?

Or the kids born out of wedlock? It's more common and less taboo than it was back in the day, but I just don't see the fuss about if a single gay parent and their partner raising a child as opposed to a single straight parent with their partner raising the child.

[Seshat]

Oh, no - those would be children of SIN! I'm sure SportinGoods' mother would have a lot to say about that - none of it good.

[miffed]

I used to be against gay marriage, just because I thought it was the right thing, after all I am from a Christian upbringing.

But then I thought to myself, would gay marriage really be all that big of a problem? Is society going to instantly crumble the moment it is allowed? Is it going to even affect my life at all? What is the "sanctity" of marriage, and haven't straight people managed to screw that up enough already!? Marriage is becoming a joke, celeberities get divorced after a ridiculously short time of being wedlock, sitcoms consistently mock husbands and wifes with their stereotypes. It's common for people to live together and start families without ever thinking about marriage.

Marriage is screwed up enough. Yeah homosexuality may or may not be in accordance with the Bible but I fail to see how allowing two loving individuals marry can screw it up more.