Illinois: Doing away with freedom of religion, one bill at a time

[Amethyst Hunter]

This really pisses me off, not least of all because it's an outright attempt to force the majority, bit by bit, into conforming with the ideals of a minority group.

Illinois just made it state law that ALL schools - not just private ones, public ones too - now must have a *mandated* "moment of silence" beginning every school day. This bullshit of a bill came about after a first attempt was sensibly vetoed by the governor; consequently, the zealots marshalled their numbers and apparently convinced almost all the legislators to overrride the governor's veto - meaning, the damn thing is now law. Thanks a lot, assholes. Gonna put Prayer Police into all the schools next to enforce this piece of crap legislation? (Probably, seeing as how all the zealotry seems to be coming out in full force nowadays...)

"Moment of silence" means nothing - everybody knows it's just code for state-sanctioned school prayer, even though no particular religion has been specified (yet). (One jackass on a newsblog had the balls to blame the lack of such prayer being responsible for all the school shootings. No, you ignorant fucktard: BULLYING and culturally-sanctioned bullying is what made all those kids kill each other!) Most kids will ignore it and carry on as usual. The few that will observe it, thanks to the brainwashing they've received from their in-turn brainwashed parents, will push for more such measures and claim they're being discriminated against. Because it's so totally anti-Christian to be prohibited against shovel-feeding *your* personal values down *someone else's* throat, you know.

[CancelMyService]

I may be an athiest but I don't grudge anyone wanting to have a moment of private prayer. It does rub me all sorts of wrong ways when I hear people make the "schools got bad when we took prayer away" argument. Actually, schools got bad when they became a low priority on the government funding food chain and so called "education reforms" turned into factories of rote-memorization to ensure proper achievement test scores.

Also, it's not discrimination to tell someone they can't push their beliefs down other people's throats. The day that no longer was common sense was a sad day in this country.

[Amethyst Hunter]

I don't grudge anyone wanting to have a moment of private prayer.

Neither do I. What bothers me most about this is that it opens the door for potential future abuse by the small minority that likes to abuse organized religion for their own sick purposes. Most kids will just ignore the ruling and go about their usual business, albeit 'silently' (For that matter, who gets to dictate how long the silence lasts, or what exactly people will have to do during it - do the ones who don't care get to opt out and pretend like it's just an extended study hall?). The few that agree with it will do their thing quietly for the most part, and the very few that see it as an invitation to make trouble will attempt to push for more overt measures, including ones that favor specific religions, and that's when it really gets hairy. :/

We don't need a 'moment of silence' to start off the school day. What we need are more teachers and officials that give a damn (no offense intended to the hardworking ones that do exist and do a lot of good; I've personally known both good and crap teachers) and curriculums that focus more on teaching people how to think instead of memorizing crap that five, ten years from now won't be worth two cents and that they're likely never to use for the rest of their lives.

[Boozy]

I have to agree with Amethyst Hunter - a "moment of silence" is just the first step in the Christian nationalist's campaign to get prayer back in schools.

They're trying to wear their opponents down gradually. And if they were to succeed in getting prayer back in school, don't think for a minute that they'd stop there. Public schools would become Christian schools if some people had their way.

[rahmota]

Well I'm with Boozy and Cancel on this one. I'm aethiest/agnostic/apathetic whatever about religion. Basically If you want to pray to the great god jiggityboo then have at it leave me alone and we'll be just fine.

Trying to get laws passed to support your religion must mean you dont have much faith in your religion. because if it was all that good then wouldnt people want to join it without being forced to do so by the government? And people wonder why I call the far right relgious nutjobs the Christian Taliban...

As for prayer in school I'll say this as long as there are pop quizes there will be prayer in school....

[Greenday]

I haven't had a pop quiz since middle school. And even then, they were just joke quizzes to up our grades.

A mandated moment of silence is a load of crap. I go to school to learn. If you want to get your prayer on, do it at home, or go to the bathroom and do it. Don't waste my freaking time. If my high school had started off every day with 5-10 minutes of a "moment of silence" for personal reflection, I'd have been late every day to school.

[tendomentis]

I suppose it would depend on how long that "moment of silence" really is.

10 seconds??? Nobody is really getting a "prayer" into that.
30 seconds? Maybe, but it's still going to be rushed.

How about this....a ten minute break (not lunch or recess) where you can sit quietly and read, or meditation for those students that meditate, or prayer for those students that pray?

[AFPheonix]

Why can't kids who want to pray do so during the breaks they already have between classes, recess, and lunch?
I fail to see why we need a special dedicated prayer time when not every child prays.

[Ryu]

I'm in college now but when I was in high school the breaks between classes werent long enough to do anything but get to class, there was no recess, and lunch was too loud

[tendomentis]

Why can't kids who want to pray do so during the breaks they already have between classes, recess, and lunch?
I fail to see why we need a special dedicated prayer time when not every child prays.

Many religions' prayer or meditation practices need more than the space of a few seconds (or even just a few minutes) to be observed according to that person's religion, and as of now there exists no time during a child's day at a USA public school to allow that student the necessary time to pray.

Effectively, that is the US government's passive (and quite possibly unintentional) means of restricting a person's religion by use of a state sponsored service.

No, not everyone prays. And not everyone prays the same as everyone else. And not everyone who prays takes the same amount of time as another person who prays a different way (or to a different deity). If a student doesn't want to take that designated "quiet time" to pray, that student could choose to read or study (like homeroom).

So many people cry to keep religion out of schools, but that shouldn't deny a citizen the right to practice their own religion during the school day. A student taking a scheduled ten minute break to pray to his or her diety or deities doesn't negatively impact a student who does not follow the same practice.

[Boozy]

If there are students who feel strongly that they need to pray during the school day, schools should accommodate them. Religious freedom and all that. I just don't see why every other non-religious student in the school needs to stand around and wait for them.

Why would I want to stand and stare at the wall while a handful of kids pray? If prayer time is such a problem, perhaps the schools should use that moment of silence to teach time management skills.

I went to school to learn, not to embrace my spiritual side. That is a personal/family concern to be dealt with at home.

Certainly accommodations should be made for strict adherents of Islam, because that requires prayer five times a day. But something tells me that Muslims were not the folks these Illinois legislators had in mind to help. Just call it a hunch.

[tendomentis]

If there are students who feel strongly that they need to pray during the school day, schools should accommodate them. Religious freedom and all that. I just don't see why every other non-religious student in the school needs to stand around and wait for them.

Why would I want to stand and stare at the wall while a handful of kids pray? If prayer time is such a problem, perhaps the schools should use that moment of silence to teach time management skills.

I went to school to learn, not to embrace my spiritual side. That is a personal/family concern to be dealt with at home.

Certainly accommodations should be made for strict adherents of Islam, because that requires prayer five times a day. But something tells me that Muslims were not the folks these Illinois legislators had in mind to help. Just call it a hunch.

Why don't you read other comments and get a clue? Students who do NOT use that time to pray would NOT have to just stand still and stare at a wall, they cold be free to "learn" and would not be required to participate in any kind of group prayer.

You may have gone to school to learn and not embrace your spirituallity, but your priorities can't be foisted on others. Many happy students embrace their spirituallity and study at the same time and seem to get along just fine, and it isn't for you or the state to say that they cannot observe their religious obligations during the day. As long as those relgious practices are not being forced on any other students, they should be as free to practice those religious observances during the school day as you would be free to NOT observe those same practices. Many faiths around the world require meditation or prayer several times during the day, not just Islam.

And while you are correct that the "group" pushing for this "moment of silence" probably does not have those other faiths as part of their agenda, it would just stick it to them all the more if the federal government as a whole allowed these "faith breaks" for all faiths, thereby pre-empting whatever agenda this group or other groups like them might have by extending those protections to all faiths.

[Greenday]

Why don't you read other comments and get a clue? Students who do NOT use that time to pray would NOT have to just stand still and stare at a wall, they cold be free to "learn" and would not be required to participate in any kind of group prayer.

Well, you obviously couldn't learn anything during that silent time as, well, it's SILENT. When a teacher verbally repeats what they are writing down, students' capacity to remember what is being taught is greatly increased.

High school for me was from 7:40am-2:35pm. If they threw a "silent time" somewhere in the middle of the day and extended school even longer, I'd be seriously pissed off. School is for learning. If you want to learn so much religion in school, go to a private school. Public schools are supposed to be about learning what you need to learn and no bsing around.

And when someone's need to pray in the middle of school infringes on my time management, my priorities DO come first. I wanted to get to class and learn as much as I could, as quickly as I could, in an efficient manner. I worked after school, as did many other kids. If school was extended because of a moment of silence each day for "personal reflection", my work schedule would have been messed up and I couldn't have worked all those after-school shifts.

What someone does in their own free time is their business, but this messes with my time and I'd fight this to the death for messing with my rights to learn and to make money. What's the big deal with just praying after school? Is our impending doom so damn close that you have to pray at every second for salvation?

[AFPheonix]

Maybe things are different now, but in grade school we had 2 recesses and a lunch period, about 30 minutes long each. We also had various other breaks, too.
In Junior High we had a 15 minute break midmorning, plus a 45 minute lunch and a 45 minute recess.
In high school we had a 15 minute mid morning break and a 45 minute lunch.
We had enough time in high school to have a little prayer group after lunch each day. Unless things are hugely different now, I fail to see why these would not be sufficient allotted times.
Besides, it's not like school has you from 9 to 5. You get out around 2. Pray after school.

[tendomentis]

Well, you obviously couldn't learn anything during that silent time as, well, it's SILENT. When a teacher verbally repeats what they are writing down, students' capacity to remember what is being taught is greatly increased.

High school for me was from 7:40am-2:35pm. If they threw a "silent time" somewhere in the middle of the day and extended school even longer, I'd be seriously pissed off. School is for learning. If you want to learn so much religion in school, go to a private school. Public schools are supposed to be about learning what you need to learn and no bsing around.

And when someone's need to pray in the middle of school infringes on my time management, my priorities DO come first. I wanted to get to class and learn as much as I could, as quickly as I could, in an efficient manner. I worked after school, as did many other kids. If school was extended because of a moment of silence each day for "personal reflection", my work schedule would have been messed up and I couldn't have worked all those after-school shifts.

What someone does in their own free time is their business, but this messes with my time and I'd fight this to the death for messing with my rights to learn and to make money. What's the big deal with just praying after school? Is our impending doom so damn close that you have to pray at every second for salvation?

You really are dense, aren't you?

You're just aching for a reason to take away someone else's rights because you don't agree with them. If CERTAIN students wanted to spend ten minutes out of the school day to observe their religous practices, that doesn't mean your schooling doesn't continue during that time. Homework maybe? Independant study time?

Or maybe there could be an option to take a half hour meditation/prayer break, or attend a class towards understanding the various different religions around the world (something you clearly could have benefited from given your flippant attitude and opinion that they can just "pray after school"). Quite a few religions practiced in the USA have the practicioners praying/meditating several times a day, but you don't want to be inconvenienced by their beliefs so you'd rather their rights be trampled on so you can act how YOU please.

Seriously, shame on you. Be glad other people care more about your rights as an individual than you obviously care about others.

Perhaps a class like that could even count towards your grade, maybe as an addendum to social studies.

So, three options:

Pray/meditate according to your religious beliefs
Take a graded class to further understand world culture and relgious practices
Study independantly (which you would have to make time for after school anyway)

Allowing students who want the time to pray or meditate according to their beliefs does not inconvenience you or slow down your learning process or otherwise take time out of your precious day, you just use that as an excuse because you don't agree with it. You are truly dense if you truly lack the ability to learn during "silent time". I take it you don't sit quietly and just read much? Please don't pretend to be stupid by stating that one cannot learn during a "silent time". It demeans us all.

People like you who call for the rights of the individual but who would trample on the rights of anyone else they had a problem with are the worst kind of hypocrite and one of my personal pet peeves. Your narrow minded-ness is one of the worst kind, because it makes a false show of being open minded.