Northern Virginia Islamic school ducating future terrorists?

[IDrinkaRum]

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/islamic...24161109990001

K-12 Islamic school in Northern Virginia is having people in power wanting them to shut down.

The school gets money from the Saudi Government & the textbooks/curriculum are based on Saudi standards.

Does this mean they're terrorists? One person who attended the school did join Al Qaeda(sic). But that doesn't mean that peron joined because of the school. Christians have been known to jump ship from their religion to another religion.

What does everyone else think?

[AFPheonix]

On one hand, the Saudi version of Islam, Wahabism, is the most puckered version of Islam out there, and is the one that most Sunni terror groups ascribe to. It is also the one that is most restrictive to women's rights.

However, what I found interesting in the article was that the people who objected to the school were doing so because they were teaching that other religions were wrong and that Islam was the only way. By that measure, than most every Christian private school should be closed as well. When I was in a Christian high school, I remember watching some films on other religions, especially Mormonism that were waaaay beyond the pale, with scary background music, almost comically threatening animations, the whole nine yards. I hope most of us saw it for the propaganda that it was.
In any case, I don't think you can judge a school by ONE student that goes on to be a terrorist, any more than you can judge Columbine by its gunmen. It is a silly attack that smacks of McCarthyism reborn.

[Greenday]

Well, considering America is becoming one of the dumbest countries in the world, using another countries standards might not be the worst of ideas.

And as for the school being shut down because it's an Islamic school, well, that doesn't surprise me when our country's rules seem to be based on what a certain different religion says.

[IDrinkaRum]

I'm of the mindset that if you're going to close one religious school, you should close down all religious schools.

Christians can be terrorists as much as the next non-christian out there. (Ku Klux Klan anyone? I consider them terrorists, and they're out to get anyone who isn't white, anglo-saxon or protestant which means even though I'm white & anglo-saxon, they'd harm me just as they'd harm an islamic).

I'm not sure what the correct solution is to this situation, but closing the school isn't one of them.

[rahmota]

I'm of the mindset that if you're going to close one religious school, you should close down all religious schools.

You are quite correct. I agree with you totally about that. One of my friends grew up in and attended a religious school. the amount of stuff he had to learn after leaving school to catch up with everyone else was just incredible. And I'm not talking about the general sinful stuff you get in a public school I'm talkign basic science and history.

He said the school he went to didnt teach anythign that disagreed with the standard catholic interpretation of what happened in the world and his science book was published back in the early 1960s. They where basically all about indoctrination and blind rote follwoing of dogma.

Religious schools in my opinion should be held to the same academic standards as secular schools or else they loose their liscence to operate. and if they arnt liscenced then they shouldnt be allowed to operate.

[IDrinkaRum]

I remember back in sophomore year of High School, my world history teacher was an ex-nun. She left the convent to get married. I can't remember her name for the life of me (it was a hard-to-pronounce foreign name). She was a great teacher. Patient, understanding, and always expected the students to go above their abilities in everything they did. She was also a teacher when she was a nun.

But to what you said rahmota, it's scary what religious schools are teaching our children. Sure, they're private so they're smaller with smaller teacher to students ratioes but is it worth it when they're not getting a good education?

[Seshat]

I dislike any dogma which dictates that women should be picture-perfect little housewives pumping out 2.4 (or more) children and maintaining a pretty house with a picket fence and a green lawn (or any other type of house, for that matter).

However, persecuting a school purely because of the religion of its staff isn't on for me. You can shut down a school because it's not teaching children well enough, but not because it's teaching a religion you don't like.

That said, if I ran a school or developed a school curriculum, I'd include a section on world religions. Each religion would have its tenets and beliefs clearly explained, its place in world history described, and as far as possible, there'd be a guest speaker from every religion available at some point or other during the course.

Naturally, because of so many variations of Christianity, I'd have to have a representative selection of those variations - it'd be prohibitively difficult to cover the lot.

[rahmota]

Seshat:

You can shut down a school because it's not teaching children well enough, but not because it's teaching a religion you don't like.

That is true enough. I think the biggest deal the news article was trying to allude to was that it was a breeding ground/training organization for anti-american (or to raise the shade of an old evil UnAmerican) activities and thoughts. One of the former students went and joined al-queda, its backed by the Saudi govt and not our governtment etc... Is why the folks in power are so fearful about this school. At least thats the major official issue they are trying to trumpet. The religious aspect kinda just fell in along with it as a fortuitus after thought for them.

At least thats how I read the article.

The bad thing is that a lot of the christian groups I can see wanting to try and shut down that school just for the simple fact of its competition for their worldview and their propaganda. Which would also be a problem I could see them having with your comparative religion course. My local community college had one for a few years then someone in power got a wild hair and removed it. The official reason was it was not beneficial to the curriculum. Personally I think they just didnt want their pet religion to be compared and contrasted to others. So now the old place is a religion free zone basically. Now imagine trying to get a class like that in a high school. They have a hard enough time getting evolution and anne frank or other "controversial" subject liek sex education to be taught in schools. Mention religion and thats a lit match in a fireworks factory.

I mean I personally agree with you that everyone should have the opportunity at least to compare the various faiths and tenets and look at how different cultures worship their deities. Even if realistically there are more similarities than differences too many people just latch on to the differences and see any questioning or anythign other than blind abject obedience to their chosen faith to be a threat and insult to be stomped out by any means necessary. I mean I was just looking on the news and there is a british teacher in a sudanese prison because she let her class name a bear mohammed.

Drinkrum: Whats scary is the lack of practical education in our education system as it is. But thats another thread.

[Seshat]

Indeed. The majority of religions have some very similar ideas at core: I happen to know that Christianity, Islam and Buddhism all hold the Bill-and-Ted-like concept of 'be excellent to one another' as a major part of 'how to be a good Christian/Muslim/Buddhist'.

And yes, I know some people are terrified of their children learning things like that: which just saddens me. And confuses me, actually.

As for Un-American: heck, I'M unAmerican. And proud of it. I'm very Australian, though.

[AFPheonix]

Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are all very closely related. Even Islam uses part of the Talmud and part if the New Testament in the Koran, and regards Jesus as a prophet. All claim Abraham as an ancestor.
Buddhism is different from those, as there really isn't a deity involved, just a higher plane of being achieved.

Actually, I got from the article that a lot of the other Christian schools that interacted with this particular school were defending it, which I thought was pretty neat.

And while I'm sure there are some seriously crappy private schools out there, mine was pretty good at teaching other subjects other than religion. English was especially a strong point with the Junior High and High school I came out of. Science in the Junior high was rather piss-poor, as they were teaching Creationism out of very outdated texts, although the High School Biology teacher made a valiant attempt to teach us all standard Biology. I am ashamed to say that by then a lot of us were pretty brainwashed into Young Earth Creationism and didn't absorb it well. Poor guy, I should go back someday and tell him I appreciate the effort. Pretty thankless to try and go against everything less learned people had hammered into impressionable minds from the start.
The Physics and Chemistry guy was pretty good and pushed us pretty far, and for that I'm thankful.

[rahmota]

Seshat: Whats confusing? Parents would generally like to have their children grow up to follow their teachigns and their paths and for some that means basically beings little clones of the parent. Relgion is one of those areas where that happens frequently. I've known several people that the only reason they can say they are a (Insert religion) is because their parents where and their grandparents where.

AFP: I missed the bit about the other schools. Well thats good at least. Slightly surprising but good none the less.

[Seshat]

If you (generic you) want a clone, buy a doll. Children are small, not-yet-fully-developed people, not miniature copies of their parents. I guess that's the first part that confuses me.

To me, childrearing is the process of taking a sperm and an egg, and over the course of two decades or so, guiding them into becoming a functional young adult human with independent, but hopefully well-considered, beliefs, motives and aspirations.

So that's the first point of confusion: how can people not understand that children are people, not copies of you?

Second point of confusion: how can a person actively not-want to know what the major world religions are about? They affect everything that happens in the world, surely something with that much effect is something a person wants to know about? Especially when a little superficial research will show that they're more similar in their moralities than different.

Third point of confusion: have faith in your faith
Believe that your religion will stack up well against the others when your child learns basic comparative religion. Especially if you have a faith that has a scholarly tradition, which every faith I've studied so far has, at least in a small branch. The scholars will usually have studied other faiths, and chosen to stick with their own.

If a person doesn't have faith in their own religion, why are they still following it? And why would they want to have their children follow it?

[protege]

You are quite correct. I agree with you totally about that. One of my friends grew up in and attended a religious school. the amount of stuff he had to learn after leaving school to catch up with everyone else was just incredible. And I'm not talking about the general sinful stuff you get in a public school I'm talkign basic science and history.

I know what that's like. I went to a Catholic grade school...and it was *exactly* like that. They spent so much time preaching...and not enough teaching. Just about everything in that place was out of date. Our math books were nearly 20 years old, and literally held together with tape. Yet, the religion class texts were always new. Oh, and it wasn't even until 6th grade that we started having computer classes once a week. Keep in mind that it was about 1988, and the *newest* machines they had were 1970s Tandys

[rahmota]

Seshat: I am not sure there is enogh banndwidth to help clear that confusion up...

As for why people want to try and force their children to be miniture copies of them I can only speculate that it comes from a lack of self confidence, an overzelous adherence to traditions or some kind of sick mind game of living their lives over through their kids.

I'll agree with you that children are going to be who they are going to be. All a parent should do is teach, protect and occasionally nudge in a certain direction. My parents did that with me and I'm trying to be just as good with my kids.

how can a person actively not-want to know what the major world religions are about?

Ignorance is bliss. And if they dont have those pesky questions or issues of comparing and contrasting the other religions they cant be all smug and certain that their way is the only way....At least thats the way it seems like with most of the religious nuts (now available in 1 pound packages) I've encountered. They don't want to know what everyone else is thnking because it might threaten their pedastel they have their worldview on. Imagine the horros if they had to actually respect and acknowledge that someone else's religion might be as valid or worthy as their own.

If a person doesn't have faith in their own religion, why are they still following it? And why would they want to have their children follow it?

Probably for the same reason as my pervious answer. Ignornace is bliss. Its tradition. Its just easier to do what they've always done than to try and do anythign else. Fear of change or the unknown. I'll admit when I first left the church and religion and all that a long time ago there was a little bit of niggling fear and doubt that maybe I was doing somethign immensely stupid and dangerous. I managed to get over that but someone who isnt as devoted or willing to do somight have trouble making that jump. Some people just like the comfort of familiar routines and will faithfully go throuhg the rituals just because its a grounding point for them.

Protege: Oh my gods wow. Please tell me they where at least the 1000 series tandies and not the Old TRS80s.

But yeah I'm not saying there isnt good private or religious schools, just their priorities seem to be a bit off from what the educational system really needs.

[AFPheonix]

Third point of confusion: have faith in your faith
Believe that your religion will stack up well against the others when your child learns basic comparative religion. Especially if you have a faith that has a scholarly tradition, which every faith I've studied so far has, at least in a small branch. The scholars will usually have studied other faiths, and chosen to stick with their own.

If a person doesn't have faith in their own religion, why are they still following it? And why would they want to have their children follow it?

Some of it is that people will wrap themselves up in their insular religious little worlds. They send their kids to private school, go to church several days per week, have friends through the church and school, maybe even work in the school, etc.
The other part is that in many ultra-conservative assemblies, these people have it beat into their heads that their religion is under attack from all sides. They just flat out don't realize that they have the largest religion in the country, much less the world. Sometimes the only way pastors and elders have control over their flock is to keep them on the defensive.
Part of this too is that they don't seek out education about other religions from outside their own. When they do learn about it, it's from information provided to them from Christian organizations like Focus On The Family. I'm sure you can imagine how skewed that info can be! When I was in Jr. High/High school, I had a reference Bible that had little blurbs put in by the translators about some of the text on that page. I remember there was some decidedly unflattering stuff written about other religions and even other Christian sects like the Gnostics. It didn't even occur to me until I was older just how much like propaganda those blurbs were. Kind of sad, really.

I know what it's like to be absolutely blinded and brainwashed by that type of lifestyle, because that is what I lived until college. Thank god I went to a secular school and opened up and learned for myself. If I have any kids, I am NOT going to subject them to what I was subjected to. I want my children to be able to be discerning and know how to figure out for themselves what is truthful and what isn't.