The Army forcing attendance at an Evangelical Christian concert.

[Arcade Man D]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-..._b_687051.html

Summary: Rather than being dismissed for the day, the unit in question was marched directly to an Evangelical Christian concert. Many of the soldiers expressed concern, and when they arrived, those who did not wish to attend were allowed not to. However, when those soldiers chose not to attend....

Those of us that chose not to attend (about 80, or a little less that half) were marched back to the company area. At that point the NCO issued us a punishment. We were to be on lock-down in the company (not released from duty), could not go anywhere on post (no PX, no library, etc). We were to go to strictly to the barracks and contact maintenance. If we were caught sitting in our rooms, in our beds, or having/handling electronics (cell phones, laptops, games) and doing anything other than maintenance, we would further have our weekend passes revoked and continue barracks maintenance for the entirety of the weekend.

While I understand that there are certain freedoms you do give up when you join the military, I'm also fairly certain that free exercise of religion is not one of them.

[telecom_goddess]

I don't see how that can even be remotely legal. Not everyone has a religion and those that do are not all christian.

The reason I never joined the military and never had an interest in it was the loss of freedom. I don't like the idea of my job controlling my life 24 hours a day.

[Hobbs]

That's...completely wrong. In fact, we're not allowed to attend religious or political gatherings while in uniform (the basis is that the Armed Forces are supposed to be neutral). I see this as a great eye-sore to the new image the military is trying to accomplish. I won't say anything towards anyone in particular, but I do think that the base IG and the JAG should be contacted about this. I can't see this happening in an Air Force command, and I don't think it should be tolerated on an Army post, either.

[Arcade Man D]

That's...completely wrong. In fact, we're not allowed to attend religious or political gatherings while in uniform (the basis is that the Armed Forces are supposed to be neutral)..

Thank you, Hobbs. I wanted to say that my friend said something similar, but I wasn't sure. So thanks for confirming my suspicions.

[Hobbs]

Is your friend also in the military?

[Arcade Man D]

Is your friend also in the military?

Yup, he's an Army Intel Analyst.

[Hyena Dandy]

I'm pretty sure that that's against the rules, to have armed forces personnel be compelled to go to a religious event. For one, I didn't even think you could wear your uniform at a religious event (Except maybe funerals?) A friend of a friend said he had to stop off at home to change clothes because he was in uniform when my friend and I decided to stop by a church yard sale.

If this story is true, than I am highly disappointed with whoever made the decision. The armed forces are supposed to be religiously neutral, no? Whoever did that deserves some sort of punishment, though not being an expert on the military, I can't say what that should be.

[PepperElf]

i agree - they should write to their congressional representatives.

now i've been in situations where my command had "Mandatory Fun" - meaning that you HAD to attend an event. BUT it was usually a command picnic. NEVER was it for a religious event.

and personally i'm not much of a fan of christian rock anyway.

There are TOO MANY different religions in the military that forcing one religion down everyone's throat sounds VERY illegal.

My last ship had Catholics, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Wiccans, Buddhists... probably even had some Hindu but I'm not entirely sure. But they were all allowed to worship.


As for uniform - that actually depends on the uniform. (Navy) Some uniforms you can't wear off the ship, some you can't wear off base. So for a religious event ... wearing your uniform depends entirely on where the event is and which uniform you're wearing. I've specifically worn my dress uniforms to church for example.

(In fact the only place i specifically remember uniforms - even dress uniforms - being banned was at casinos in Mississippi. that might have been a rule for the local base however).



and i just talked to mom about it - she's horrified.

mom was born to evangelical ministers and she knows what it's like. it's why she left their church and chose a different denomination of christianity. as she said... "They use the music to lure you in, to get you into an emotional state and take advantage of it."

basically... it will be beautiful music. and then someone will try to convert you.
even if you're already christian.




so now they're forcing soldiers to be in a situation where someone will try to convert them. where they'll use music to get them into an emotional - and vulnerable - state and then try shoving them into their own version of christianity?

wtf indeed

[Ipecac Drano]

And I thought square dancing was fascism! (Black shirts, crammed into a small room, being barked orders on how to dance; but I digress.)

Seriously, if they're on their free time, they have the right to go and do as they please. Even if it wasn't religious, why should they have to go to a concert if they don't like the music? I hate 93% of the music I hear (and I still proclaim to be a music lover), and I should have the right to opt out of any concert if I so happen to choose.

[insertNameHere]

This is why I have not been trying to continue on with the idea of joining the military, I have always liked to think for myself, and I don't like the idea of being tried for treason if I have a difference of opinion with some idiot who is in charge or at the very least being punished with pointless tasks.

I think it is great to have a Christian concert for those that actually want to attend, but screwing over those who don't is bullshit. I actually went to a "church" service with my girlfriend at one of those ones that does the whole band thing, it is annoying and over the top, I really don't want to go back because it just isn't my environment, and that was only 3 songs can't imagine a whole concert

[Rapscallion]

I know for a fact that there are Jewish and Muslim soldiers. I believe that Wiccans managed to get their faith recognised on gravestones a while back. How could this be justified in any way, shape, or form?

Rapscallion

[Ipecac Drano]

How could this be justified in any way, shape, or form?

Simple: "I'm the boss, now do as I say!" So far, I haven't found any articles with a follow up about the general apologizing or being reprimanded.

[Racket_Man]

I know for a fact that there are Jewish and Muslim soldiers. I believe that Wiccans managed to get their faith recognised on gravestones a while back. How could this be justified in any way, shape, or form?

Rapscallion

yes Wiccans/pagans are recognized. in the UK I believe that Druids are recognised also.

here is a Wiki answer post with the major ones

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_relig...in_the_US_Army

This list is for the abbreviations for Dog Tags.
U.S. Army's Religious Requirements and Practices of Certain Selected Groups: A Handbook for Chaplains

Anglican .....………………………...... ACC
Atheist, Agnostic, or no religion .. NRE
Baptist ..........................…………. BAPT
Christian Science ...........……...... CS
Greek Catholic ..............……...... GC
Greek Orthodox ...........…......... GO
Jewish ........................……...... JEW
Latter-Day Saints .......……..…... LDS
Lutheran ....................…...….... LUTH
Muslim ........................……..…. MUS
New Apostolic Church .............. NAC
Other Protestant Denomination OPD
Pentecostal ......................……. PENT
Presbyterian ....................…….. PRES
Roman Catholic ..................….. RC
Salvation Army ...................….. SA
Unitarian Universalist ...........… UNI
United Church ...................... ..UCC

[senor boogie woogie]

My limited understanding of the military is that the commanding officer can order his troops to do whatever he/she wants them to do, as long as it is not a criminal act. If General Steelballs wants you to massace civilians, you not only can, but must refuse the order. "Just following orders" is not a defense. Otherwise, within reason, the commander of the base can do what they want to do, until someone aboves them says no.

If the commanding officer is giving a lawful order, an order that isn't illegal, then the person being ordered is obligated to do what is required of them, which includes doing crap like going to a Christian concert or being confined to barracks cleaning house. The soldiers are powerless to really do anything. This is the military. If it was any other branch of government, the Post Office for example, a process of greivance could be filed with their union, EEOC or whoever handles things of this nature.

Now, (dunno) if the commanding officer of the base orders every troop on the base from his XO on down to buy at least one box of his granddaughter's Girl Scout cookies, I dunno if that would be a lawful order. Unethical perhaps. Or have Obama make all the troops buy girl scout cookies so his daughter can win the Badge of the Year.

Personally, I think Obama would tell this General to cut that shit out if he heard about it. The problem with Obama is that he doesn't want to alienate any voters, and he doesn't want the press to have a story of "President disbars Christian concerts on military bases."

[dragon_wings]

WTF? My brother went to West Point and he was there during the last presidential election. From what I remember he didn't (or wasn't allowed) to vote to maintain impartiality, being forced to go to church goes so far beyond that.