The whole "Happy Holidays" vs. "Merry Christmas" argument

[RedRoseSpiral]

This is what I posted on my facebook. Yeah, it's a bit passive agressive, but I got really tired of all the drop outs I went to high school with posting about how their religion is being outlawed and all that BS.

Just so everyone knows, I don't care what the fuck you celebrate. I don't care what the fuck you call a decorate tree and so on and so forth. Stop acting like fucking victims. You're not being prosecuted, there are no laws against your religion, and we live in a country with a Constitutional mandate of separation of church and state. If you want your religion and its holidays recognized by the government, go start your own country with a theocracy, because the US is a democratic republic. Evidently, many of you have a problem understanding this. How about instead of popping out kids you can't afford you go back to school and stop being brainwashed by the church.

[Andara Bledin]

...as in not having a religious greeting shoved down our throats and told "we're the ones with the problem"

Anyone who reacts to a heartfelt "merry Christmas" any differently than a heartfelt "have a nice day" needs to go see a proctologist and get the chunk of lumber dislodged from their uptight ass.

Other people's freedom to declare their own religion in a benign manner comes out on top.

I really find it funny that people who try to wield the First Amendment like a battering ram against those who follow any religion seem to completely forget that the First Amendment is what gives those people the right to make such declarations in the first place.

^-.-^

[jackfaire]

I have been saying happy holidays since I was a kid and the PC movement hadn't tackled the whole what to say at winter time thing yet.

You know why because New Years is right after Christmas. I was always saying it to acknowledge them both as in my community they were the predominant holidays. We were 5 years into the happy holidays argument before I even noticed.

The funny thing is that most people I knew rarely said Merry Christmas before this issue unless it was Christmas day because you had a line up of Thanksgiving, Christmas then New Years.

Now they are all upset that they are frowned at for saying Merry Christmas.

[fireheart17]

The only ones who would throw a fuss about the swap from MC to HH are the Christian Fundies, the ones who demand everything and one be "Christianised" (that a word?). The type of people we want to lock away from public so we can preserve our sanity.


And you know what? I say both Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas. If someone says they don't celerbrate Christmas, I say sorry and wish them a happy holiday.
If they carry on, I flip them the bird.

Ahhh. Such a joyful time of year. Can't you feel and see the love?

I don't say Merry Christmas unless someone says it to me first. More out of respect in general, not because of a particular religion. (I have Buddhist and Pagan friends, however they are both starting to celebrate the secular aspects of Christmas for various reasons)

There was actually a Facebook status about this as well that was circulating around my friends pages. I was actually disgusted by it: the gist of it was that if you're one of those who says "Happy Holidays" or call it a "holiday tree", then you don't follow Australian customs and should therefore leave. My response to it has been: there are those who don't celebrate Christmas, yet were born in Australia. Does this mean that they should be forced out of the country for choosing to follow a different religion? (not all Muslims are Middle Eastern/Asian, not all Buddhists and Hindus are Asian and not all Jewish folk are Israelite. Also do not forget pagan traditions )

[SpaceCore]

I stick with happy holidays, but overall I just don't care what someone wants to say to me. Except, now that I think about it, I might start responding to "Merry Christmas" with "Happy New Year" because it's never freaking Christmas when people say it to me.

Anywho, one thing I can't stand is people who need to rant and rave the moment they hear somebody say "Happy Holidays" (the same would apply to "Merry Christmas" but it doesn't seem to happen)

Like a SC I had at work. I work in a photo studio, and our seasonal background, though clearly a Christmas tree, is called "Holiday Scene" so that's what I refer to it as. Now this one dad was happy to ignore everything happening and play on his iPhone, but the moment I said "Holiday Scene" to his wife he starts ranting and raving.
"What holiday!? There are tons of holidays! My favorite holiday is Fourth of July! Is it a Fourth of July background? NO!? THEN CALL IT CHRISTMAS!"
Which I promptly ignored like he ignores his family because I didn't name the damn background.

[BeenThereDoneThat]

Your coworkers, however, are morons. Tell them to pick up a history book. America was not founded on Christian values. "Under God" was added in 1952 and "In God We Trust" was added in 1956.

LOL...I really, really felt like mentioning that at the time I do like these particular people a lot in most aspects, but it was still annoying. I should be used to it by now, having lived in this state for 20+ years...I'm surrounded.

[jackfaire]

Now this one dad was happy to ignore everything happening and play on his iPhone, but the moment I said "Holiday Scene" to his wife he starts ranting and raving.
"What holiday!? There are tons of holidays! My favorite holiday is Fourth of July! Is it a Fourth of July background? NO!? THEN CALL IT CHRISTMAS!"
Which I promptly ignored like he ignores his family because I didn't name the damn background.

That guy is just a jerk but I agree on the holiday section naming thing for different reasons than him I am sure.

I stopped shopping at a department store because they had a "Holiday" Section but the only things they carried in that section were for Christmas. Not anything for Kwanzaa, Chanukah or even New Years. It bothered me flat out because it's false advertising.

I mean how many people go there looking for holiday stuff for the non Christmas holiday they are looking to celebrate and find nothing, but hey now they are in the store and will probably buy something else.

That being said it's Corporate's fault they are advertising that they have a holiday section and not the clerk's fault. That being said you send a letter to Corporate or vote with your dollar.

[SpaceCore]

Oh yeah, the name for the background makes no sense.
Especially since we don't really have anything that's not-Christmas related.

[bainsidhe]

Now to me, calling a section or display a "Holiday" section or display is perfectly fine, because it's true. Just as it would be to call it a seasonal display, Christmas display, etc. Our store always called it our Christmas section the "Seasonal" section, which if you take literally, isn't exactly true. The seasonal section would only have Christmas stuff, no rock salt or shovels or boots, like you'd expect to see this season (winter).

It irks me when people take things so literal, instead of just accepting their intended meaning. Labels are generic because someone, somewhere, is going to have a problem with it.

There are probably some stores out their that have a Christmas themed santa background. No doubt if the store called Santa their "Christmas background", someone would complain how Santa isn't real and has nothing to do with the true meaning of Christmas, etc etc.

[Sleepwalker]

The only reason this comes up is for corporations and the government not to show overt religious favouritism. Get over yourselves- if your work requires you to welcome everyone coming in the door, and call crackheads Gentlemen, getting your knickers in a knot over saying Holidays is ridiculous.

[Sleepwalker]

Also, Under God was a post WW2 addition. It was hardly something any of our more memorable leaders and statesmen had anything to do with.

[guywithashovel]

"Happy Holidays" is not new. Besides, I always thought people said it because you're celebrating multiple holidays during that time period (Christmas and New Year). Killing two birds with one stone.

Of course, a band of hateful, belligerent jerks with persecution complexes have used it to make themselves look like victims. Oh well.

[HYHYBT]

Now to me, calling a section or display a "Holiday" section or display is perfectly fine, because it's true. Just as it would be to call it a seasonal display, Christmas display, etc. Our store always called it our Christmas section the "Seasonal" section, which if you take literally, isn't exactly true. The seasonal section would only have Christmas stuff, no rock salt or shovels or boots, like you'd expect to see this season (winter).

When I've seen it, "seasonal" makes good sense. True, they don't put coats and rock salt in there. But before the trees and lights, the same part of the store was full of Halloween decorations and costumes. After New Year's, it will get Valentine's Day stuff, then Easter, etc. So, the various holiday seasons, not Winter-Spring-Summer-Fall.

Speaking of which, I saw Peeps today, December 12. They were shaped like trees and snowmen, but the box said "Peeps" and they were made of the same marshmallow-like stuff. (I hate Peeps, but bought a chocolate orange once the cashier showed me they were hidden, not with the other seasonal candy, but by the potato chips. A big display of them, actually, with different kinds even... but where nobody in their right mind would look for them.)

[Glados]

The entire debate is useless as far as I am concerned. People should use whatever greeting has meaning for them and those receiving the greeting should realize that it is meant in kindness.

In high school I had a teacher who was Jewish. Every year the students would forget this and wish her a merry Christmas. She would thank the student and wish them a merry Christmas and a happy Hanukkah. No one got offended. It was simply understood that we were all just being nice.

Now, my little cousins go to a school where mentioning any religion in any way = a 10 day suspension from school. It is considered to be violating the other students rights. I don't understand how suspending a child from school for simply mentioning their religion does not violate those same rights. Saying "merry Christmas" or "I am Catholic" is not by itself forcing your beliefs on the other person nor is it denying them the right to practice their religion.

[Amanita]

^Exactly. That is just a rediculous example of PC run amok. It does me no harm whatsoever to hear somebody say I'm a Baptist/Catholic/Jewish/Pagan/Atheist. I know I wouldn't last a week in a school where speech is so tightly controlled, that even the most innocuous mention of something carries such a harsh penalty. What else is forbidden there? I'm guessing religion isn't the only thing on that school's no-fly list.

It would be no skin off of my teeth to go to school and see some Christian students organizing a lunchtime prayer circle. As long as those same students don't get all sharty if myself and some other Pagans want to organize our own thing, or a group of Muslim students want to pray or read the Qu'ran together. As long as nobody is forcing anyone else to take part, or trying to interfere with somebody else's peaceful observance, where is the rights violation?

I can honestly think of a few situations where mentioning religion might be unavoidable. What if a student is Muslim and somebody asks her about her headscarf? Or even if she doesn't wear Hijab, observes the Ramadan fast, and somebody- either a fellow student or a nosy lunchroom aide asks why she isn't eating? Or a Jewish student gets asked by a curious fellow student why he won't eat pork?

I can completely understand bans on proselytizing, or religious hate speech. But to say that nobody is allowed to mention their beliefs ever is just going too far. Are Atheists allowed to talk about what they believe (or don't) since it's not technically a religion?
(No offense meant to any Atheists here)