Atheist messages displace CA park nativity scenes

[Andara Bledin]

I find it funny that there's a huge level of butthurtedness in there. Jameson, the pro-christian display guy, is upset about all the out-of-town atheists pissing on his parade ... in a town he also doesn't live in.

If I recall correctly, he attends one of the churches that puts up the display, which makes him part of the community despite not living there. None of the others involved appear to live, work, or participate in any community activities within the city.

They didn't say to shut up. They took what they were allowed to take. I'd be astounded if the allotment procedure didn't change, but that's all it was - an allotment procedure.

But they didn't need to. They didn't even want all of that space. They just wanted to make sure the others didn't get to have it.

If the rules are wrong, amend the rules. My main concern remains unanswered. I'm not satisfied that church and state have been properly separated.

You know who to contact to answer that question, and it's not us. If you really want to know, you'll do something about it. As it stands, you're just claiming that something's not right based on "gut feeling" without making any real effort to discover the truth.

To make it even easier:
Their website: http://www01.smgov.net/parks/
Their question line: 310.458.8573
Their online contact form: http://user.govoutreach.com/santamonica/
Their email contact: ccs@smgov.net

^-.-^

[Rapscallion]

If I recall correctly, he attends one of the churches that puts up the display, which makes him part of the community despite not living there. None of the others involved appear to live, work, or participate in any community activities within the city.

According to the link you provided, Vix used to work there and still shops there.

You know who to contact to answer that question, and it's not us. If you really want to know, you'll do something about it. As it stands, you're just claiming that something's not right based on "gut feeling" without making any real effort to discover the truth.

To make it even easier:
Their website: http://www01.smgov.net/parks/
Their question line: 310.458.8573
Their online contact form: http://user.govoutreach.com/santamonica/
Their email contact: ccs@smgov.net

^-.-^

I maybe doing just that. Give me a nudge if I don't get back to you on that?

Rapscallion

[Kheldarson]

http://www01.smgov.net/parks/parkandrecMP.pdf

Page 41 might give you an answer.

[Rapscallion]

Not sure that page 41 does. It talks about 'cultural events' if that's the part you're talking of, but it seems to be in terms of planning with the local arts - playwrights, murals, that sort of thing.

Rapscallion

[Kheldarson]

I'd say it's a cultural event in terms of a particular cultural phenomenon that occurs yearly in December.

[Gravekeeper]

Argh, ok. Lets go over this again. The whole thread has drifted away me thinks.

Fact of the matter is: Everyone here is a dick except the Rabbi. End of story.

Jameson is a raving idiot. Vix is a prick. Thats really all this amounts too. Seperation of church and state is a moot point because this was done entirely in accordance with Federal law. This a public park and the displays are technically a public forum anyone can apply too and thus covered by the First Amendment. Vix may not agree with the law, but this is the wrong place to change it.

Vix's stated primary goal was "evenhanded treatment to present his beliefs in a public space". Which he already had. So his primary goal here is a moot point. His secondary after thought was church and state. Which it sounds like he paid lip service to after the fact to get the 3 non-atheists on board.

So he gets together this big group and they intentionally submit 11 individual applications. The Christian group submits 1. The Jewish group submits 1. So Vix intentionally manipulates the rules by loading the pool in his favour. Then, when they get selected, they intentionally claim as many display lots as possible locking out other viewpoints. Directly contravening Vix's stated goal of equal representation. Then when it comes time to put up the displays, none of them have much to do with the seperation of church and state. So his secondary stated goal is also a load of bullshit. Then just as an added bit of dickery, they leave many of the lots empty.

Thus the only conclusion is that they're trolling and judging by their shit eating grins after seeing the Christian groups froth at the mouth, that is indeed all they set out to do: Troll the Theists.

Unsurprisingly, some of the Atheist signs got vandilized, and now they're playing the dramatic victim on Facebook. Which I can't get too from work, so I can only quote from Atheists United ( Who have a gallery of vandilized signs up on their Facebook ):

"Vandals spray painted over our sign. They don't believe atheists should be allowed to love." - Atheists United

Maximum trolling~

[Rapscallion]

Well, the source is a bit old (1997 if memory serves), but all I can see mentioned there are traditional arts. Theatre, some sort of scribbling, that sort of thing. I got the impression it was non-denominational.

That said, I'm not convinced they'd be able to mention religion at all in official publications as something they supported due to the church/state thing. That would be a fairly open breach.

Rapscallion

[Gravekeeper]

That said, I'm not convinced they'd be able to mention religion at all in official publications as something they supported due to the church/state thing. That would be a fairly open breach.

They probably can't mention it, just as they don't evaluate display content during the application process. As that would be a breach me thinks. Still, its Federal law. Not state or muncipal law. Even if church and state really was their foremost point, this is basically like screaming at a counter clerk because gas prices are too high. You're making your point to someone who has no power whatsoever to do anything about it and just resents you for yelling at them.

[Seifer]

Quotes from the article:

The Santa Monica Daily Press reported that churches had little or no competition for the spaces during the past 57 years. This year, 13 people bid for spaces, prompting City Hall to use a random lottery system to allot the spots.

"Our belief is that these new applicants have been working together to displace and push out the nativity scenes from the park, rather than erecting a full display of their own," said Hunter Jameson, a spokesman for a coalition of the city's churches.

/end Quotes

Waaah, we used to be able to put up whatever we wanted and now we can't. Waaah! We're being persecuted! Waaaaaaah!

STFU. People got tired of seeing all the religious crap in the public park and decided to put up signs of their own (or simply purchase the space so it can stay blissfully empty). If you want the spaces so bad you'll have to try again next year.

[Hyena Dandy]

What bothers me is that it's not "We want to put up signs." It's "We don't want THEM to put up signs."


I'l stick by GK.

"Fact of the matter is: Everyone here is a dick except the Rabbi. End of story. "

[Peppergirl]

I think most of us have enough of a sense of humor to appreciate this when it comes to this particular thread. At least, I hope so!

[Hyena Dandy]

I think most of us have enough of a sense of humor to appreciate this when it comes to this particular thread. At least, I hope so!

Yep. I'm with ya on that one.

[Andara Bledin]

Well, the anti-theists have managed to make the whole thing enough of a headache for the city that the park will remain display-free this year.

Article at Huffington Post

^-.-^

[Duelist925]

Well, the anti-theists have managed to make the whole thing enough of a headache for the city that the park will remain display-free this year.

Article at Huffington Post

^-.-^

Damn. =/ I wish it could have had a better outcome.

[SkullKing]

Fact of the matter is: Everyone here is a dick except the Rabbi. End of story.

I am not so sure. while there are some very confrontational signs, A fair number of the signs are in very good taste.

For example There is one in special that just says something like "Season's greetings<name of atheist association> wishes you all an abndance of joy"

I think it is probably proporcional to how much of a dick each person who won the space is.