Atheist messages displace CA park nativity scenes

[Gravekeeper]

I must admit I have no idea what the heck the argument is now. >.>

Still:

and honestly, there are over 50 currently practiced religions on this planet, all of them believe theirs is the one truth, is that even plausible, especially as most of them are contradictory to each other.

Completely false if not straight up ignorant. Could we please stop equating Christianity with all religion and fundementalist Christianity for all Christianity? The way certain groups of Christians conduct themselves has nothing to do with the rest of religion. Hindu's do not convert people nor even do missionary work. Buddhists are bound, by their very own teachings, to accept truth even if that truth ends up being another religion. Shintoism demands you respect all gods and offer respectful prayer to other gods even if they are not your own.

Stop painting the entirety of religion and spirituality with the brush of a vocal bunch of Christian dicks in the southern US. They do not represent the entire world and to argue that they do is to be near as ignorant as they are.

[Kheldarson]

There's the actual discussion over the decoration cages which seems to be on agreeing that they need to rework the rules of this lottery a little. Bit of argument over whether or not we like how the cages are being used or not as things currently stand.

Then there's the side argument between BlaqueKatt and Hyena Dandy which seems to be over word choice and misunderstandings. I'm getting lost there myself honestly.

But must agree that we need to stop painting religions by their vocal minorities. True, the silent majority needs to speak up more (and this goes for any religion), but crazy fundie of any religion =/= the whole.

[Gravekeeper]

There's the actual discussion over the decoration cages which seems to be on agreeing that they need to rework the rules of this lottery a little. Bit of argument over whether or not we like how the cages are being used or not as things currently stand.

Oh I got that one fine, its trying to follow BK and HD with BK arguing against a position that does not appear to be held thats making me scratch my head. >.>

But must agree that we need to stop painting religions by their vocal minorities. True, the silent majority needs to speak up more (and this goes for any religion), but crazy fundie of any religion =/= the whole.

Can you blame the silent majority though? I mean really, think about it. If you have one group of dicks claiming to be on your team, and they spend their entire lives being dicks, why do you have to follow around after them with a sign saying "YES, I AGREE THESE PEOPLE ARE DICKS AND DO NOT REPRESENT US" for your entire life? You can't be expected to clean up after them all the damn time.

Seriously, look at Islam and how well that worked out for Muslims in the US when they came out against 9/11. Practically the entire Muslim world came out in universal condemnation of 9/11 ( Even Iran for fuck sakes ), but everyone else choose to focus solely on one handful of cheering pricks in Palestine then spent the next 6 months looking around wide eyed going "OMFG WHY HAVE NO MUSLIMZ SPOKEN UP?! THEY MUST ALL BE SECRETLY CHEERING!" 24 hours a day in the media.

[Andara Bledin]

The worst part is that if you're one of the not-so-silent majority who aren't pricks, you get it from both sides. The fundies all claim you "aren't part of the group" because they're only willing to include other pricks and the people who support them, no matter how off target they've become, and the opposition also claims you "aren't part of the group" because you're not a douche and so they can't be just as big a group of pricks if the group they're targeting is made up of decent people so you don't get to be part of that group. 9.9

And it's not just religion I get to deal with this shit on, either. It's truly tiring.

^-.-^

[Rapscallion]

To be fair to the moderates, the western media is more to blame than they are, since they only showed the bad side and very little of the condemnation. They reason they did this is because it sells.

Says more about us than the media, really, as we're the ones buying it.

Rapscallion

[Panacea]

When people mock my faith, that doesn't make me look at my beliefs in another way, or see how 'ridiculous' they are. All that does is make me angry at the person doing it. If I'm angry at someone, it doesn't matter what they're saying, I'm not going to listen.

I have no problem at all when others mock my faith. As a Christian, I am accepting of all people, even when they're raging assholes. Let them mock away; my faith is my faith.

This isn't sending a message, or challenging the status quo. It's being a spiteful douche.

So what would have been good uses of the space? Well, rather than wasting the opportunity in the name of giving religion the finger, they could have done some research, and put up presentations on world religions and what they do this time of year (even if it's nothing), and try to educate people. Or maybe displays showing people the non-Christian origins of various Christmas traditions.

Well, I'll agree the athiests are being spiteful douches. But by the same token, the Christian Nativity Committee is just as much a "conspiracy" as the atheists are; they simply conspire to PROMOTE their faith in public.

Which is OK, but let's be honest. They're a group of churches who banded together to use public space to push a particular message. That's no different than what the atheists did. They just got beaten at their own game, and now they're sore about it.

What I would point out to the Nativity Promoters is that they're violating the "Graven images" of the 10 Commandments. Pushing nativity scenes is idolatry.

What these Christians should do is gracefully admit they got pwnd, and lobby for a change in the lottery rules to reduce the number of spaces any one individual OR organization can have. If their member churches had just put in requests maybe they'd have gotten more spaces. Their failure to plan does not constitute an emergency on Santa Monica's part.

Am I the only one wondering why they had religious displays set up in a city park in the first place?

It's actually OK to have a religious display on public property AS LONG AS other faiths can have displays too, and the display is not actually owned by the government. Churches have just as much right to public space as anyone else.

Because of tradition? Because it's Christmas and that's what we do?

That's what Christians do. And not all Christians at that (Jehovah's Witnesses don't celebrate Christmas).

I must admit I have no idea what the heck the argument is now. >.>

Still:

Completely false if not straight up ignorant. Could we please stop equating Christianity with all religion and fundamentalist Christianity for all Christianity?

Stop painting the entirety of religion and spirituality with the brush of a vocal bunch of Christian dicks in the southern US. They do not represent the entire world and to argue that they do is to be near as ignorant as they are.

I'm not sure ANYONE here equated Christianity to the fundamentalist asshats, though there is definitely some defensiveness going on. While the claims by the Nativity committee are not fair or valid, just wanting to have nativity scenes doesn't make you a fundamentalist shithead.

I read in the paper today that 80% of non Christian Americans also celebrate Christmas. I'm sure they celebrate the social aspects more than the religious, but given the holiday is still associated with peace and goodwill, that message is appealing to many non-Christians.

[Gravekeeper]

I'm not sure ANYONE here equated Christianity to the fundamentalist asshats, though there is definitely some defensiveness going on.

That was more a general statement as its been a trend on the boards here for a while that religion = Christianity = Christian fundies. -.-

Which is irksome both in general and to those of us that aren't Christian here such as moi.

[fireheart17]

What I would point out to the Nativity Promoters is that they're violating the "Graven images" of the 10 Commandments. Pushing nativity scenes is idolatry.

What these Christians should do is gracefully admit they got pwnd, and lobby for a change in the lottery rules to reduce the number of spaces any one individual OR organization can have. If their member churches had just put in requests maybe they'd have gotten more spaces. Their failure to plan does not constitute an emergency on Santa Monica's part.

Now I'm thinking of that scene in Dogma where Matt Damon's character kills everyone in a boardroom apart from one lady, for various sins, the main one overall being that they have created an empire based upon a golden calf. (I KNOW there's a biblical reference to it, but I completely forget what it is)

That's what Christians do. And not all Christians at that (Jehovah's Witnesses don't celebrate Christmas).

In regard to JW's, they will observe weddings, funerals and anniversaries, but without the "pagan traditions". They don't celebrate Christmas or birthdays because they continue to involve "false beliefs or practices". Most other holidays they don't celebrate due to the belief that they are pagan in origin (which technically Easter and Christmas are )

I read in the paper today that 80% of non Christian Americans also celebrate Christmas. I'm sure they celebrate the social aspects more than the religious, but given the holiday is still associated with peace and goodwill, that message is appealing to many non-Christians.

Same reason I celebrate it.

[protege]

Which is OK, but let's be honest. They're a group of churches who banded together to use public space to push a particular message. That's no different than what the atheists did. They just got beaten at their own game, and now they're sore about it.

That's exactly it. They were so used to getting their way, that they *expected* to be able get those spots. Now that someone else played their game (with their rules) they're pissed off that they lost. Boo hoo hoo.

[Andara Bledin]

That's exactly it. They were so used to getting their way, that they *expected* to be able get those spots. Now that someone else played their game (with their rules) they're pissed off that they lost. Boo hoo hoo.

My issue isn't that someone else got those spots, but that the someone who did get the spots took them, not because they wanted them, but because they wanted to deny someone else from using them, despite their own apparently never having expressed any interest in them prior.

it's like the neighborhood kid noticed other kids they didn't like were playing with some toys that were available to everybody, they got in line, were given their turn, and rather than take what they planned to use and leaving the rest for the other kids, they grabbed as much a they could fit in their arms and locked it up just to spite the other kids.

^-.-^

[Panacea]

Also a very good point.

I really don't see any angels here, on either side.

[Kheldarson]

That's what Christians do. And not all Christians at that (Jehovah's Witnesses don't celebrate Christmas).

Prolly should have phrased that last part better. More meant "it's Christmas and that's what we as a community do". So more back towards tradition anyway. Point was that towns have their own traditions and like to continue those traditions.

[Gravekeeper]

This is turning into a derp fest all around.

Delusional assholes with no concept of law or history on one side:

"There's a very militant atheist movement that's trying to drive out vestiges of the truth. They're trying to deny the truth that this nation is founded on Christian principles," Jameson said.

"These people, atheists, a number of them, like Mr. Vix, are bound and determined to drive away from any public place any manifestation that Americans are God-loving people," Jameson added. "This is not fair, this is not just."

annnnd shit disturbing assholes on the other:

Vix and 10 Los Angeles area friends he recruited make up the 11-member alliance, though three of them aren't atheist but agreed to join because they don't agree with the city's policy of supporting religious displays, Vix said.

When names were drawn, one of the atheists' names came up first, and he claimed a maximum nine exhibit spaces, followed by the rabbi who asked for one, and then another atheist who secured nine more, city officials said.

The churchs here may be completely delusional idiots, but the atheists here are intentionally being shit disturbing pricks too. Everyone involved is just a dickhead here. -.-

[Panacea]

Yeah, pretty much.

No side of angels here . . . pun intended

[Andara Bledin]

I think that the rabbi gets a pass.

^-.-^