Political interference with Religion

[AdminAssistant]

A friend of mine just posted this petition on Facebook. Basically, a bunch of Catholics are pissed off that they now have to pay into insurance policies that cover contraception, fertilization, and abortion. They think they should be able to add a 'conscience clause' that prevents them from doing so.

If this were allowed, I would like to sign a 'conscience clause' that prevents me from paying into an insurance policy that encouraged women to breed like rabbits because they aren't 'allowed' to decide what to do with their own bodies.

[jackfaire]

If they don't want insurance with a company that covers things that they are against then they can start their own insurance company that doesn't cover those things and pay into that.

[BlaqueKatt]

If they don't want insurance with a comany that covers things that they are against then they can start their own insurance company that doesn't cover those things and pay into that.

it's illegal to not cover birth control-yay Obama and congress!(that is a genuine +10 yay of happiness, and not a -50 yay of snark)

If this were allowed, I would like to sign a 'conscience clause' that prevents me from paying into an insurance policy that encouraged women to breed like rabbits because they aren't 'allowed' to decide what to do with their own bodies.leave medical problems untreated because they can't afford treatment

Fixed

Oddly I read that catholic women have the second highest number of abortions(28%)...

[bara]

Because Catholicism is involved here:

Several years back 2005? I think I remember reading about a texas teen, 17 or 16 that was due to have a set of twins by c-section. This would mark her THIRD set of twins. She had a single baby before she turned into a full blown baby factory.
17 and 7 kids has got to be some sort of sick record. She was jobless, her boyfriend at the time was only the father of the current set of twins he was jobless. I think only the firs three kids had a shared daddy. None of whom were paying child support.

quote from mother 'she is a good catholic girl and I will help raise them'.

Mom was jobless too and only in her late 30s if I remember right.

Conscience clause? bullshit

[Andara Bledin]

quote from mother 'she is a good catholic girl and I will help raise them'.

Right. She did such a great job with her daughter.

And "good Catholic girl" my ass. Actual good Catholic girls don't get themselves knocked up by three different guys before they become legal adults.

^-.-^

[fireheart17]

And "good Catholic girl" my ass. Actual good Catholic girls don't get themselves knocked up by three different guys before they become legal adults.

^-.-^

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Catholics also against children born out of wedlock? I know that society wise, it's less of an issue today if bubs is born to non-married parents (a few mummies I know are either single parents, engaged or just had bubs anyway)

[jackfaire]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Catholics also against children born out of wedlock?

Less than they are against abortions or birth control. Look back through history many babies were born before the 9 month mark to Catholic families since you know they never had sex before the wedding night yet could be 3 months pregnant already.

It's considered more of a sin to keep yourself from having a baby than from having one before your married.

[Kheldarson]

^Um...more like it's more of a sin to commit murder than to have a child out of wedlock. And the whole children before the 9 month thing applies to a lot of groups. Not just Catholics. Considering the term shotgun wedding comes from the West, which was primarily Protestant...

[jackfaire]

Considering the term shotgun wedding comes from the West, which was primarily Protestant...

I didn't mean to imply that it was only Catholics. Nor was I trying to say they don't consider abortion to be murder just explaining they consider it to be more of a sin.

[PepperElf]

Political interference with Religion

Those of you here may be aware of what the Catholic Church is currently facing. I am putting this in politics and not religion because this IS political.

It calls to mind the question - how far can the government go in forcing its will upon a religion.


Right now the Catholic Church has been ordered by the government to start providing birth control options in the health care plan - regardless of the church's stance against this. They have one year to comply.

(as for pro-life vs pro-choice this is NOT about that. We have other threads on that argument. This one is about whether or not the government can force its will upon a religion - and the implicated first amendment violations)


Personally I think this is a two-fold fight.

1) The fight of the government against a religion, attempting to dictate what they can and cannot support.

2) And attempt to force the Government Health care plan down people's throats - by "encouraging" private health care organizations to GTFO.


But it goes beyond just that. On top of this Army chaplains have been ordered to NOT let this letter be read - even though the priests are under religious orders to read it.

They can only distribute it in the back, but they are banned from reading it from the pulpit, as per the Army



So how far can the government go in this?
Should they be allowed to dictate to a religion what they can and cannot support?


And why no waiver? There are waivers a plenty for companies. Why none for a religion. Unless there is a plot behind it?


full letter is printed in this article here

[Greenday]

I don't see what the problem is. Is it that they are forcing religious organizations to give employees comprehensive health care?

[Andara Bledin]

This is about health care plans offered by institutions whose primary purpose is other than religious.

These are the plans that cover employees who work for places such as hospitals and universities, many of whom are not Catholic and who should be given the option to have birth control covered as part of their health care benefits.

It's not as if it's being forced on the churches, as they get to keep the situation where their non-Catholic employees are required to pay full price for birth control.

For another view, here's an article from Winnipeg Free Press on the issue.

Plus, nobody is forcing anybody to use birth control against their will, so Catholics who don't wish to can continue to not do so, but based on the article linked, many Catholic women want access to affordable birth control.

^-.-^

[HYHYBT]

Having seen previous examples of the Catholic church taking deliberate and unnecessary action to position itself as unfairly treated by the government, I cannot trust a word they say on anything along those lines. In fact, I see no reason not to assume they are lying yet again (or at least grossly misrepresenting the truth) until proof is shown otherwise.

And I hate being driven to that position, because there's a lot of good in the Catholic church, and particularly, every Catholic I've known well enough to have an opinion on has been a good person. But "the Church" has a lot of rot in its structure, and that tends to come out in how it addresses political issues.

EDIT: while I was typing that, Andara Bledin gave additional information that at least partly confirms my suspicions.

[bara]

This is about health care plans offered by institutions whose primary purpose is other than religious.

This is exactly what I was thinking, not so eloquently though.

Its more along the lines of keeping the institutions from forcing their religious views on those that work for them.

[BlaqueKatt]

Its more along the lines of keeping the institutions from forcing their religious views on those that work for them.

especially as many valid medical conditions are only treatable with birth control pills, so they are actually forcing women to pay out of pocket or go without necessary medical treatment, it's technically gender discrimination.