Prayer in British Councils deemed unlawful

[SongsOfDragons]

I recall the old thread about prayer in schools...now either I can't find it or it has begun to decompose at the bottom of the forum pages. Since this focuses not on schools filled with minors, but on councils filled with decision-power adults, I thought to make a new thread...

Basically, in the UK the courts have decided that Bideford Town Council is acting unlawfully in mandating prayer, or a period of quiet reflection at the beginning of meetings.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-16980025

Lots of interesting points are made here, including the judges' comments, the Analysis and the comment by Mr Simon Calvert as to whether the National Anthem is next.

As an Apatheist and a person who tends to argue to dialectics (reaching a common ground - always done it for most things and I'm delighted to have found a word for it) this is little more than an 'oh, okay, fair enough' to me at the moment, but I know that my dumplings on here might see this as a quite important point in the ever-going argument of Church and State, so I thought to share this.

Warning: Don't go to the comments. Just don't bother. I haven't. XD The people who haunt the BBC Have Your Say are...well...let's just say the bile will make your screen melt.

[Andara Bledin]

It's amazing how many of those who wish to have prayer as part of the dictated structure of an event whine about "having the right to pray" when they are intent on forcing that prayer time on everybody around them.

If they want to say their prayers so badly, they could arrive early and have their little prayer meeting outside of council sessions.

I love how those who are all, "But we've done it that way forever," or, "It's sad how a minority is forcing it's views on the majority," ignore the fact that what they're doing could be done at a more appropriate time and place and that they are, in fact, using mob rule to attempt to force their views on the minority when they have no right or foundation to do so.

^-.-^

[HYHYBT]

What I find interesting is that it appears to treat an official prayer and a moment of silence as the *exact* same thing. In passing, even, as if that were fact beyond discussion.

[jackfaire]

Governing body is doing things like mandating prayer of a certain faith in itself then isn't it also leading the people to "this faith is the right one all others are BS"

[Hyena Dandy]

Wait, is it saying a prayer, or a moment of silence?

I'm really unclear, and they're definitely very different things.

[Jeir]

An update.
"The government is activating a power it says will allow councils in England to hold prayers at meetings."

So...nice secular society we have here, huh?

[SongsOfDragons]

Oh dearie me... XD

Whose screens have melted yet?

It's fair enough I suppose. As long as they don't try to get me to care - I temp for local governemnt and I'm thinking I might use any beginning-of-meeting time to faff, whether getting drink-faff, look-at-meeting paper-faff or plotting-faff. Which I'm sure they won't bitch about else I get my crossbow (known as HR)

Housemate does minutes for some pertinent meetings, not the big council meetings. She said that they just get on with it.

[Silverharp]

I know that a lot of people fear that allowing one specific type of prayer to be said leads to exclusions and before long "So..I see that YOU weren't praying with everyone else. Care to explain that?"
Beyond that...a moment of silence so that anyone who wishes can say a silent prayer seems to be a good middle ground, doesn't exclude anyone.

[jackfaire]

Beyond that...a moment of silence so that anyone who wishes can say a silent prayer seems to be a good middle ground, doesn't exclude anyone.

Which personally would be fine with me however usually the people pushing for prayer in these situations are rarely in my experience willing to compromise. In fact putting forth a compromise like that will be met with, "Your trying to keep God out of the schools blargity"

[AdminAssistant]

Eh, I'm actually not a fan of the moment of silence, honestly.

[SongsOfDragons]

Aye. Shouldn't they be getting on with making important council decisions?

[Hyena Dandy]

Unless these meetings are about an immediate emergency, I think they can a moment of silence without the economy collapsing.

>_>

Actually, I think a moment of silence would be a good way to get people centered and focused on what's at hand. Since everyone is being quite (and ideally turning inward to get some focus, but at least being quiet) it could interrupt their busy thought processes, so that once the meeting starts, they'll get right to business.

This is just based on my personal experience with moments of silence, they've always helped things calm down and let me get focused, and they seem to for people around me. Help things calm down properly so that people will be thinking clearly when it all starts.

[Greenday]

Actually, I think a moment of silence would be a good way to get people centered and focused on what's at hand. Since everyone is being quite (and ideally turning inward to get some focus, but at least being quiet) it could interrupt their busy thought processes, so that once the meeting starts, they'll get right to business.

I always found that writing down what you want to talk about saves a lot of time. You won't need to keep stopping to figure out what you want to say. No moments of silence where people can get their religion on at the expense of wasting everyone else's time.

[SongsOfDragons]

I always found that writing down what you want to talk about saves a lot of time. You won't need to keep stopping to figure out what you want to say. No moments of silence where people can get their religion on at the expense of wasting everyone else's time.

I have to do that when I visit the doctors for a non-routine thing - everything just dribbles out my ears when I'm in that seat and having it written down is so much easier. I imagine the same would work for me before a big meeting starts. I remember being part of the youth council (Newbury Town Council) and going through the minutes and the itinery before we began.