Rape Victim Denied Contraceptives

[Andara Bledin]

It's just his definition of what's helping is not the same as that of others.

As a doctor, it should be to help others medically, and no more.

If he wanted to help others spiritually, then he should have gone into the clergy, instead.

^-.-^

[Hyena Dandy]

As a doctor, it should be to help others medically, and no more.

If he wanted to help others spiritually, then he should have gone into the clergy, instead.

^-.-^

Yes, but here he's in a situation where he keeps being told "This is murder." He doesn't much care for murder (who does?) and thus, he decides to... Not cause murder.

And that's why he needs to be obligated to give a referral. Because he doesn't see it as helping at all. He doesn't see it AS "Helping someone spiritually make the right choice and do what's right for them." He sees it as "Keep tiny babies from being murdered."

So, he DOES think he's helping. I mean, I don't think he's helping. I know yo udon't. I don't think anyone on the thread does. But it's not that he came up and was thinking "I sure want to force everyone else to make my choice."

Am I making sense?

I'm not saying what he did was right. I'm just trying to explain the thought process.

[HYHYBT]

I understand fine. It makes sense, given one wrong assumption. If X is murder, then helping someone do X, whether by telling them how and when they need to do it or by referring them to someone you know who is willing to do that, logically makes you an accomplice.

[PepperElf]

Because of the doctor's stupid religious beliefs.

This is the part I disagree with.

Just because you might disagree with someone else's religious beliefs does not make them "stupid".

And if one is free to point fingers and say "stupid" when disagreeing with one person's beliefs... then one must accept the same back and have their own beliefs called "stupid" as well.

Even if one dislikes the turnabout.

[AdminAssistant]

He not only refused treatment to a patient, but also neglected to find someone else that would give her treatment. That isn't just stupid, it's criminal.

[PepperElf]

He not only refused treatment to a patient, but also neglected to find someone else that would give her treatment. That isn't just stupid, it's criminal.

And by that notion I am allowed to call all other beliefs stupid too.
Including the belief that abortion is OK.



As for the referral... sure that might get people riled up. But ... don't talk as if it means she suddenly lost all capacity to ask another doctor herself.

I know it's not as dramatic to say "this doctor said 'no' and I asked another doctor myself and got what I wanted." Can't raise the political stink that way... but act as if the doctor tied you down and prevented you from picking up a phone... then you'll get all the female-rights people riled up and screaming

[AdminAssistant]

But there wasn't a referral. The doctor refused the standard practice of care to a rape victim who has presumably been traumatized enough without a doctor refusing to care for her. Also, the morning-after pill is not an abortion. It prevents implantation, the same as my IUD does. To say that it is an abortion is to claim that I have regular abortions after every time Hubby and I have sex.

If you aren't going to treat the patients that are under your care, don't become a doctor or a pharmacist.

[Rageaholic]

Sorry, but I cannot respect a belief that says contraceptives are wrong. I can understand being against abortion, but there is no logical reason to be against birth control. Birth control prevents (or at least lowers) the need for abortions.

The only reasons I hear against it are guilt based and "because God said so" which are NOT good reasons.

[Duelist925]

And by that notion I am allowed to call all other beliefs stupid too.
Including the belief that abortion is OK.

By what notion? In the post you quoted, Admit pointed out that this idiocy is, or should be considered, criminal as well as stupid.

And what are you talking about, the belief that abortion is ok? That wasn't an arguement in this thread. IN another, yet, but not this one.

Furthermore, abortion is not applicable to this thread--its about a jackass who let his religious bigotry stop him from doing his damn job, and putting a rape victim through further trauma.

As for the referral... sure that might get people riled up. But ... don't talk as if it means she suddenly lost all capacity to ask another doctor herself.

I know it's not as dramatic to say "this doctor said 'no' and I asked another doctor myself and got what I wanted." Can't raise the political stink that way... but act as if the doctor tied you down and prevented you from picking up a phone... then you'll get all the female-rights people riled up and screaming

Excuse me, there should be a political stink over this.

I don't care about this mans religious beliefs. He is a DOCTOR. He has a JOB to do. If he cannot do it due to his religious beliefs, he should FIND A NEW ONE. It is that simple. But I would be almost ok with this, if he had just gotten her to a doctor that would do their damn job. Not quite, but almost. But he couldn't even do that.

I am a christian. I probably barely qualify as one, but I do considering myself one. And every single time I see some moronic shit like this, especially in my own state, it pisses me off. No one should be able to use their religious idiocy (And yes, any belief that entails denying a RAPE. VICTIM. Proper treatment is idiotic, and stupid, religious belief or not) No one should be able to use their religion to oppress and harm another.

Especially a doctor.

Furthermore, no one is calling this mans beliefs stupid because we disagree with him.


We are calling them stupid because they are fucking stupid.

The morning after pill is not an abortion. There is even scientific research which shows it not only stops implantation (Which happens naturally a lot) but also stops fertlization as well, by delaying ovulation.

Contraception is not abortion. It prevents abortion.

[Andara Bledin]

The only reasons I hear against it are guilt based and "because God said so" which are NOT good reasons.

The basic concept behind that is that sex should only be for the purpose of procreation. Contraceptives go directly against that belief.

I, personally, don't ascribe to that thought process, and with the mystification of sex, abstinence-only education will never work on more than a few outliers. However, I can understand, for an adult who chooses that path, why they might do so.

^-.-^

[PepperElf]

"stupid"

Again, no. That's just using one's own personal beliefs on the matter to pass judgement on other's beliefs.

We are calling them stupid because they are fucking stupid.

This right there is what's wrong. Just because YOU feel this does not mean it's the truth.

By that mentality anyone of us can say the exact same thing about what YOU believe in. And then say "because it's true" as justification.


If you don't want to respect other people's religious beliefs... you really shouldn't be surprised if they don't respect yours. And quite frankly, if that's how it is... then you also lose your right to complain about it too.

[Rageaholic]

^^^

Yeah, I can understand those wanting to do sex for procreation only. It's their choice and really none of my business what they prefer. But when they see their decision as morally superior, I see red. Sex for pleasure is not evil.

[PepperElf]

^^^

Yeah, I can understand those wanting to do sex for procreation only. It's their choice and really none of my business what they prefer. But when they see their decision as morally superior, I see red. Sex for pleasure is not evil.

Interesting that you say "But when they see their decision as morally superior" because I personally feel that the others do the same about their own beliefs on the matter.

And have done so even in this thread.


Although ... you know I haven't yet seen anyone who's pro-life in this thread act that way yet.

[Rageaholic]

But they are the ones passing judgement on others!

Their beliefs are "contraceptives are wrong and I will make it hard for women to have them". In other words, the entire belief that's being criticized is the one that wants to prevent women from taking contraceptives!

Now you could argue that the doctor didn't prevent her from taking contraceptives, she just wouldn't do it herself. But considering she's a doctor, she made it much harder for her. And the mentality is still the same, judgemental and condescending toward people who have been through hell (bitch blamed the girl for being raped).

[Nekojin]

Interesting that you say "But when they see their decision as morally superior" because I personally feel that the others do the same about their own beliefs on the matter.

And have done so even in this thread.

Although ... you know I haven't yet seen anyone who's pro-life in this thread act that way yet.

There's a significant difference of degree here, with regard to how much some people are trying to control what other people do. A doctor operating OUTSIDE of his professional code of ethics because of his moral beliefs is causing harm by denying the woman in question the proper guidance due to her. Could she go to another doctor? Sure, but if she doesn't know she's getting bad advice, why would she? So he's manipulating her decisions through exercise of authority - he's actively making the decision for her, by not giving her the information to make the decision herself - and giving her that information is exactly what his professional code of ethics dictates that he do. At a minimum, if he does not believe he can tend to her needs in good faith, he needs to refer her to someone who can.

He decided to make the decision - a decision that is not his to make.