Placing the Ten Commandments on court houses

[rdp78]

Well, I've heard several stories where people want to put the Ten Commandments in court houses and other government buildings. Of course, there are people who don't want the Ten Commandments becuase its from the Bible and might offend people who aren't Christian/Jewish. Anyway I'm not sure if it's a great idea then again majority of the people know and study the Bible so it might not offend everyone. Then again these building are paid by the tax payers and I'm sure there are some who may be offended by it becuase of it's orgins. Again this is sort of like one religion taking over the government and making sure everyone follows it. Also The Ten Commandments are few thousands years old and aren't quite to par for today's living but then again murder, stealing and falsely accusing someone are against the law.

[Rapscallion]

I've got no real problem with a set of instructions along the lines of "Don't steal, lie" etc. The problem is that to put every one of the ten on there is that several of them are religious in nature - saying that there should be no god other than the one claimed to have written them, no graven images etc.

By adding lines such as those to this, you'd effectively have a situation where a state organisation is legitimising a religious one, where there should be complete separation.

Sure, the modern legalities evolved from there, but there's no way I would want every last detail up there. Putting laws on the side of a court house - or even in the lobby - is fine, but where would you find the room to put them all? "Thou shalt not drive over the speed limit." Doesn't quite have the grandeur, but it's a law.

Nope - I can't see this as anything other than members of a relgious institution trying to gain credence for their religion through a state organisation. If they got something saying "This is the only god you shall have" in a court house, there would be the implication that the state sponsors this.

Rapscallion

[rahmota]

I gotta agree with raps on this one. The christian 10 commandments while one of the basis of the modern legal code, along with the greek and roman legal system, are basically a set of religious moral codes.

Under the constitution of the united states there shall be no oficially recognized and endorsed state religion. By posting one religions moral codes and no others that effectively nullifies that whole no endoring thing.

What could be done is either display them all, from the code of hammurabi to the rules of the jedi, as well as the christian 10 commandments which would be fair and equal and not endorsing one above another. Unfortunately there are those who would see that as demeaning to the 10 commandments.

Alternatively display none of them. No acknowledgement that they exist officially. And then what happens is you get people who do not understand the threat having a state religion brings and get bent that the government isnt protecting their religion.

Personally any religion that needs the government to protect it doesnt deserve to exist in the first place.

[AFPheonix]

Besides the fact that the Christian religion is massive, at least in this country. It needs no protection or promotion here.

If we want to put up anything on courthouse walls, I'd imagine there's probably a blurb out there somewhere by someone famous about personal, civic, and social responsibilities, that would encompass everything the 10 Commandments are trying to convey.

[rahmota]

Well you listen to some of the christian fundies it sure sounds like christianity is about to be destroyed and all the christians thrown back to the lions or something equally nasty. Especially everytime there is something abuot the 10 commandments being removed from somewhere. remember the judge down in arkansas who had to be removed from the bench by a federal order because he kept interfering in the removal of the rock that had them like some huge monument in the rotunda of the courthouse.

And yeah in the history of humanity there are so many secular quotes you could choose from about the rule of law, respect for others and anythign else you could want to say.

[AFPheonix]

Of course preachers claim that Christianity is under attack. How else would they get their congregations fired up to do anything? Give someone a reason to fight or make them think they're backed into a corner, and yeah, they'll do something about it.

[rahmota]

True that. but what makes me laugh is that these fools dont realize that by making false claims of being under attack and then attacking and opressing people like they want to do, all they are doing is making people mad at them and then getting people ready to attack them. So a self fulfilling prophesy.

Personally there should be a law made that says all laws have to pass a religious test. if it is based on or supports or otherwise enforces or encodes or in anyway shape and form has no secular reason then it shall be an illegal law. That would be a wonderful law to have. Only secular based laws.

And before you say anythign about murder, rape and etc... being religious and nonsecular BS! Murder, rape theft etc...are secular crimes as well as religious crimes. What I am talking about is the crap like enforcing people's moral choices. ie public breastfeeding (which is starting to be legal although there are still those backwards people who dont like it) , homosexual marriage (which is regarded like wanting to publicly club kittens), language in movies and music, and other such world changing extremely unimportant,hot button issues.

I wish the Fundies who waste so much energy complaining about false attacks and other BS would actually start using that energy for more worthwhile issues, Like the unfair distribution of wealth, health and opportunities for education. Pollution and the destrucion and waste of resources. Other thigns that are actually important for the future of humnity not who is doing whom behind closed doors.

Sorry i am being so blunt tonight but I am grumpy.

basically the fundies are the onesstrring the pot up and blowing the issues out of proportion so they can control and dominate people. Same BS as always.

[protege]

True that. but what makes me laugh is that these fools dont realize that by making false claims of being under attack and then attacking and opressing people like they want to do, all they are doing is making people mad at them and then getting people ready to attack them. So a self fulfilling prophesy.

It's not just fundies who do this--the Klan and various other hate groups use these tactics too. That is, they *want* people to attack them. Not only does it *justify* their beliefs, but they can then also sue the attackers.

For example, there was a Klan "rally" here some years back. These assholes simply stood on the courthouse steps spewing their hatred, with the *intent* of retaliation. From what I read in the papers, they were trying to anger the few black protestors by claiming that they were all violent thugs. If the black people *did* attack, the Klan assholes would then say something like "well, we were right" and might even get a few new assholes into their group

[rahmota]

Yes true. I was responding to AFP's mentioning of preachers.

It is true that too many groups try to place themselves in as victimized a position as they purposely can so that they can get sympathy or legalized revenge or defensively attack the others who "attacked" them first.

[Will-Mun]

No. Period. The ten commandments should be on NO courthouse in the united states. It is a religious moral code, and therefor should be nowhere near my court house.

And the argument that the ten commandments are the basis for the American law structure is one of the, well, stupidest arguments I've heard. Lets knock that down using the commandments themselves!

First Commandment:
I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Follow this LAW lately? This goes against one of the core bases of the American Constitution, freedom to worship ANY god before any other.

Third Commandment:
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
This one goes against THE core basis of American law, the right to say WHAT you want, WHEN you want.

Fourth Commandment:
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Whens the last time you worked on a Sunday? Whoops, goin to jail!

Tenth Commandment:
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's.
It is illegal to be jealous.


The American law system is based off of civil rights. Protecting people from harm from others, keeping people equal, and basically the right to do anything as long as it doesn't harm anyone.

[Boozy]

Whens the last time you worked on a Sunday? Whoops, goin to jail!

What would they do if we all became fundamentalist Christians and refused to work Sundays?

Republicans NEED us to work Sundays. Gotta keep the economy going, keep their stock prices up.

Don't worry about their immortal souls, though. They spend their Sundays by the pool.

[AFPheonix]

....with their secretaries.




Or perhaps a male prostitute.

[protege]

Republicans NEED us to work Sundays. Gotta keep the economy going, keep their stock prices up.

I don't know about that...

My great-grandparents were very religious. However, they worked most Sundays. As farmers, they didn't have much of a choice. Nearly every day was worked sunup to sundown. Most of that time was during the Depression, and whatever they needed to eat or otherwise survive came from the farm.

[Boozy]

My great-grandparents were very religious. However, they worked most Sundays. As farmers, they didn't have much of a choice. Nearly every day was worked sunup to sundown. Most of that time was during the Depression, and whatever they needed to eat or otherwise survive came from the farm.

I come from a family of farmers who were (historically)
a) very religious
b) very conservative
c) not rich

and...

d) worked Sundays, because that's what farmers do.

So I know what you're saying...I was just making fun of the Republican agenda (get not-rich people to vote for a party that benefits only the rich by using Christian issues as a platform).

[protege]

Hehe I know...just giving you a hard time. Actually, I think it's the Democrats that want us to work on Sundays. How else can we afford the taxes BTW, not all of us who are Republicans support their agenda.

But, the government for the rich can't be soely blamed on the Republicans. There's plenty of blame for both parties. Originally, it was supposed to be of, by, and for the people. However, once those idiots started making laws, it was only a matter of time before the system started serving their own interests...instead of ours.

Anyone who lives in Pennsylvania knows what I mean--no matter who we get in office, nothing ever seems to change. People bitch and moan about how our taxes keep going up, yet some of the bastards responsible for those taxes (and pay raises) yet seem to have no problem voting those bastards another term!

However, some change did occur in my county...when voters tired of the commissioners and all the cronyism. We went to home rule, and threw the bastards out