Miss California?

[AFPheonix]

It will destroy the standard of a man and woman being married and having kids as being the basic unit of society.

As has been pointed out, families are not all that traditional anymore. Of course there's still moms and dads and kids all together under the same roof, but those are not always married.
Sometimes they're not under the same roof at all, either because of death or divorce or other circumstance.
Society has yet to crumble because of these non-traditional units, why would it all of a sudden burst into flames because gays would be able to have secularly recognized relationships with benefits from the secular state?

[Rubystars]

AFP I think the whole situation is really unfortunate. The divorce rate is really bad and the illegitimacy rate is really bad. I think both of those things are harmful to society too.

[the_std]

Illegitimate is not really a word that applies to current situations anymore. It might have when you were a king and you needed to be sure your bloodline was passed down to the right people, that sort of thing. I was born out of wedlock and I would never consider myself an illegitimate child. I'm very legitimate. I'm my parents' child.

This seems to be another indicator of your inflexibility towards the family unit. There are many different combinations of people that form successful, happy families. They are decreasingly the mom dad + 2.5 kids scenario, and yet our world is blossoming. The standard of living is higher than it ever was before, we're becoming smarter, happier, more successful people the world around, and it's because of diversity. Being influenced by many, many different factors from all over the globe, including different family structures and different cultures, has opened up our minds and allowed us to thrive.

It's a pity you can't seem to see that.

[Rubystars]

Of course you're just as good of a person as anyone else. I just think it's a better situation if children are born into a family with a wedded mother and father. It doesn't have to be that way, but I think it's best if it is.

[AFPheonix]

A wedded mother and father aren't going to guarantee the best outcome for a kid, either though.
How many married parents manage to traumatize their kids either by abuse of each other or abuse of the kids?

It's not that cut and dry. Frankly, whoever can create a stable home for a kid and make sure they get the proper things they need like food, love, education, etc. is going to be the most ideal situation, whether it is a married couple, a grandma, or some other caregiver.

[Flyndaran]

I'm an atheist but I will despise any religion that chooses to stand in the way of two people loving each other. I will shout from the rooftops my abhorence for such hate filled garbage.

[Flyndaran]

Marriage is a legally sanctioned promise between two people end of story.
Two gays can just as easily as two straights make such a promise.
I really don't understand why so many hate that concept.

[Rubystars]

I wasn't talking about an abusive home. Just about anything is better than that.

[Cat]

Love makes a family. Whether it be born in to a "traditional" family, kids adopted in to a straight couple, gay couple, single parent..what have you.

"And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'." _Bob Dylan

And I am happy to see that change (slow as it is.....)

[AFPheonix]

I wasn't talking about an abusive home. Just about anything is better than that.

That's fine, but you're saying that a married man and woman are better than any other family type with out backing up your claim with any actual data.

My assertion was to show that they are not necessarily better. A standard family isn't going to necessarily be worse than a non-traditional setup, either.
They are different, and can work equally well as long as there are dedicated caregivers involved, regardless of gender or orientation or even number.

[Rubystars]

Monogamous marriage between two people used to be more stable than it is now, with the high divorce rates that are now going on. People didn't get divorced unless they had a damn good reason. They toughed it out and worked it out. With that attitude, monogamous marriages were stable, supportive arrangements. Daughters and sons would grow up to see what a healthy male-female relationship was like and how conflicts were resolved in a healthy marriage. If grandparents were present, they could also pass down knowledge to the grandchildren. Those children would grow up to form families of their own with the model given to them by their parents and grandparents.

I don't think there's anything that needed to be changed about this arrangement, but now it seems like 3 friends can get together and call themselves a family. It's just odd to me.

[Flyndaran]

Not getting divorced is not always a good thing. Much of the time woman had no way of supporting themselves if they divorced even if they were being raped and beaten on a daily basis.
If two people can't be happy together then there is only stupidity in staying together.

[smileyeagle1021]

I don't think there's anything that needed to be changed about this arrangement, but now it seems like 3 friends can get together and call themselves a family. It's just odd to me.

A saying comes to mind,
Every person has two families, the family they were born with and the family they chose. Some of us have multiple families that we choose. I for example consider my coworkers family (there's only 8 front desk employees and 4 shuttle drivers and 2 breakfast people, 1 maintenance guy, 6 housekeepers, one sales manager, and the two co-owners/managers, so we are like one big extended family), I consider many friends to be a second family, I consider my roommates to be another second family. I can't speak for everyone, but a lot of people I know are moving towards that attitude that family isn't just the people you share genetics with, but the people you chose to be related to.

[Rubystars]

Interesting concept smileyeagle, but I would consider those more to be social networks or groups of friends rather than your family.

[the_std]

Rubystars, if smileyeagle says they're his family, why does it matter what you think of them? You're obviously entitled to your opinion, but in a case like this, it has no validity. That is smiley's life, smiley's choice to call those people family.