8 Year Old Rape Victim Abandoned by her Family

[AFPheonix]

So is your argument that they are cultural now? Or that they're still religious? You made both points...

They can be both to various people. Also, different cultures celebrate those same holidays in different ways. So while the original reason for the holiday could have been religious in nature, and may have even been nabbed by another religion, our culture often dictates how we celebrate it.

[BlaqueKatt]

They can be both to various people. Also, different cultures celebrate those same holidays in different ways. So while the original reason for the holiday could have been religious in nature, and may have even been nabbed by another religion, our culture often dictates how we celebrate it.

exactly and all those examples were "Nabbed" by christians when Rome used Christianity to unify itself under a state religion-they figured it would be easier to transition to this "new" religion if the people could still keep and celebrate thier pagan holidays.

[BlaqueKatt]

Are you joking about this, or do you really believe that christian sects haven't changed in the last two centuries?
Religion was used to promote slavery, and sexism. That changed quite a bit.

and now it's used to promote denial of civil rights to another segment of the population-nothing's changed except the victims.

The basic tenets of religion(any and all) have not changed-however the tenets of society have.

[anriana]

that's called "culture shift"-it's because the younger generations are growing up and passing their ideals onto the next generation-which is the very definition of culture.

How is that any different from my parents (attempting) to pass xianity on to me?

2000 years ago in the Christian religion Jesus was accepted by the Christians as the son of God or the Messiah-has that changed at all? Anything you can think of that has changed in any religion in the last 200 years?

Mormonism made it okay for men of color to be ministers or gods or whatever.

Some Christian denominations have started accepting queer and/or female authority figures.

Many branches of Christianity didn't exist 200 years ago.

Religion was used to promote...sexism. That changed quite a bit.

Not familiar with Southern Baptism? Some aspects of religion don't change.

As an atheist I see a HUGE difference between culture and religion.
I can celebrate halloween as a party, without believing in magical life after death.

So that makes Halloween a cultural event for you. That doesn't invalidate its status as a religious event for Wiccans. Who decides what it is?

[Flyndaran]

...
The basic tenets of religion(any and all) have not changed-however the tenets of society have.

What practitioners call the basics change over time. People like to pretend that they believe exactly what theiir ancient past holy people believe. But they don't.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Mormonism made it okay for men of color to be ministers or gods or whatever.

So that makes Halloween a cultural event for you. That doesn't invalidate its status as a religious event for Wiccans. Who decides what it is?

From my observations of the rest of the world, I'd say whoever's doing that particular bit of celebrating.

[BlaqueKatt]

How is that any different from my parents (attempting) to pass xianity on to me?

Because culture shift takes place on a national level.

you're actually trying to compare your parents trying to pass on their belief system to an entire generation banding together to eliminate a form of discrimination(segregation), and fight for cultural acceptance as equals?

Did your parents organize national protests to get you to accept their religion?

[anriana]

I fail to see what is confusing there. Are you unfamiliar with Mormonism? Did you not understand the words or word order that I used?

Because culture shift takes place on a national level.

you're actually trying to compare your parents trying to pass on their belief system to an entire generation banding together to eliminate a form of discrimination(segregation), and fight for cultural acceptance as equals?

Did your parents organize national protests to get you to accept their religion?

That is a fairly broad stroke. Plenty of people opposed desegregation and in some places (rural kentucky at the least) that is still not the culture.


To clarify, I understand that the Eucharist is religious and apple pie is cultural. What I am confused on is the overlap of things - is celebrating holidays with religious origins that are still practiced as religious holidays by many Americans a cultural or a religious thing? Are "Judeo-Christian values" cultural or religious?

[BroomJockey]

What I am confused on is the overlap of things - is celebrating holidays with religious origins that are still practiced as religious holidays by many Americans a cultural or a religious thing? Are "Judeo-Christian values" cultural or religious?

"Judeo-Christian values" would be religious. Because they're Christian values. If they weren't religious, they'd just be someone's values. Holidays with religious origins can be practised in a secular fashion. It's the intent behind those.

I fail to see what is confusing there. Are you unfamiliar with Mormonism? Did you not understand the words or word order that I used?

Mormonism made it okay for men of color to be ministers or gods or whatever.

I think it's the word I've emphasized that provided the bulk of the issue, though your own use of "whatever" doesn't exactly inspire confidence in your own certainty, so how can you not expect others to be confused?

[Ree]

The aspects of American culture I dislike are almost all tied into the Christian heritage... so...

Ummm...then that would be Christianity you are objecting to, and not the American culture.

You are the one confusing the two.

[anriana]

I think it's the word I've emphasized that provided the bulk of the issue, though your own use of "whatever" doesn't exactly inspire confidence in your own certainty, so how can you not expect others to be confused?

When "good" Mormon men die they go to their own planet and become "gods" but all they do is have lots of babies that are really ghost babies. Eventually the offspring take up too much ghost room so the male ghost children (of course) help create a new planet and then take a sister, turn into real people, and overpopulate the new planet with ghost babies. Black men couldn't do that because they were reincarnated bad people who could never be good in this lifetime. Other people of color might be able to depending on how dark they were. Once the civil rights movement happened God had a revelation (whatever) and suddenly that position changed.


There are a lot of issues with this idea, not the least of which is the idea that a god is someone who spends eternity making spiritual babies. Hence "gods or whatever."

http://www.ondoctrine.com/1mormo16.htm

"Judeo-Christian values" would be religious. Because they're Christian values. If they weren't religious, they'd just be someone's values. Holidays with religious origins can be practised in a secular fashion. It's the intent behind those.

So "In God We Trust," "One Nation Under God," "Endowed by Our Creater," etc, not part of American culture?

[anriana]

You are the one confusing the two.

welcome to the thread

[BroomJockey]

So "In God We Trust," "One Nation Under God," "Endowed by Our Creater," etc, not part of American culture?

As "One nation under God" is a recent addition, "our creator" does not assume the Christian God, only "In God We Trust" would be a valid query. And technically, no, I wouldn't consider that part of your culture. It's just on your money. That's like saying polar bears are a part of Canadian culture just because they're on our twoonie.

[Nyoibo]

That's like saying polar bears are a part of Canadian culture just because they're on our twoonie.

But I thought you all rode them to work and school. Way to ruin my dreams there.

[BroomJockey]

But I thought you all rode them to work and school. Way to ruin my dreams there.

Sorry, it's caribou. Not polar bears. Fewer people eaten by their mode of transportation.