Veil (and Burqua) not welcome in France

[BroomJockey]

Anyone wearing large sunglasses indoors kinda weird me out too.

I've got those glasses that darken in sunlight, so I don't constantly have to switch between sunglasses/regular glasses, but I went with the narrowest lenses I could get away with, so that I could avoid that kind of thing. It's worked fairly well. I think I've been asked once to take them off in the 3+ years I've had them.

[radiocerk]

Our store does have a sign up front that requests people remove hoods, hats, etc. Anyone wearing large sunglasses indoors kinda weird me out too. I always remove mine when coming into a store, just out of courtesy for this reason. So, no, it's not just a burqa thing. Anyone coming up to my counter with their face obscured makes me nervy. Anywhere else, it doesn't bother me. I'd imagine people at the bank feel the same way.

[Nyoibo]

Going on the personal safety issue of someone wearing a face covering, if it's going to be banned on those grounds, then ban wearing a hat and large sunglasses, that covers a fair bit of the face too. I would also have an easier time recognising someones eyes than their mouth and chin.

[NorthernZel]

Just throwing this in there:

http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/...ind-the-burqa/


So the burqa is not a religious article at all; just something imposed on women culturely?

Technically, yes. As I understand, the Quran only suggests that women should dress "decently" and "hide the hair". How that should be done is at the worshipper's discretion, though cultural traditions and preferences do have a lot of influence on the matter.

I once had a coworker who converted to Islam, she wore a huge Rastafari hat instead of a hijab. As she said, "hey, it covers the hair, so no problem".

[Boozy]

Fear of someone whose face is hidden is not necessarily unreasonable, in certain circumstances. What is unreasonable is to limit religious and individual freedom to the point where no one can wear face coverings in public. That is a massive overreaction.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I'm just going to make an observation here. I'm not speaking of whether people ought to wear identity obscuring garb in public or not. I'm just saying Radiocerk isn't so ridiculous as Pedersen suggests (allthough I do see Pedersen's point.)

Halloween. A night where you know everyone's dressed up and nothing strange about it, right?

Okay, I'm closing up shop (I was giving out treats at home) at around 10, as the stream of trick or treaters is drying up. It's dark, and nobody's around anymore.

I see someone coming across my front yard in the dark. It's a giant purple dragon. No, it's not Barney, but it's someone in a big dragon fursuit.

I thought, Wow. Nice costume.

Then I thought, Uh, who the hell IS that and why don't I see a car??

I will admit a flicker of fear went through me when I realized it was late, it was dark, and I was all alone in the house with a large stranger I couldn't identify striding purposefully towards me. Purple dragon notwithstanding.

Turned out, it was a friend of mine that I wasn't expecting, coming out to show me his new suit. He'd hidden his car in order to suprise me.

Coulda been anyone, and up to anything. I'm just making an observation here. I don't think fear of a hidden stranger is such an unreasonable thing. Purple dragons don't even have the distinction of coming from a demographic known for mayhem, either.

[Pedersen]

I understand people's rights to practice their religion, but it ends where it makes me fear for my possible safety.

"Possible safety"??? I was ready to go off on you completely for that statement until someone else pointed out you'd been robbed. As a result, it's only a minor explosion.

Let me show you how ridiculous that statement is, though:

• "I understand people are allowed to drive, but it ends where it makes me fear for my possible safety. After all, I could be in a crosswalk when they try to drive by."
• "I understand people are allowed to run, but it ends where it makes me fear for my possible safety. After all, they could be running from the cops, and they might try to shoot and hit me instead."
• "I understand companies are allowed to mass produce drugs, but it ends where it makes me fear for my possible safety. After all, some people get addicted to those drugs, and are willing to kill to get them."

Do you see how ridiculous that sentiment is? If you are talking about an imminent danger to your safety, that's one thing. But you're not: You're talking about a possible danger at some point that may or may not ever actually occur.

I'm not too fond of the burqua on the grounds that, to me, it seems to be a way to oppress women. But that's not enough to make me force women to stop wearing it. And here you seem to be espousing the idea that anybody who comes in dressed in such a fashion might well deserve to have their own freedoms stripped away on the grounds that you might possibly be in danger at some point.

That's wrong on so many levels. I'm going to hope I just misunderstood you.

[radiocerk]

As someone who works in a drugstore (frequently robbed for Oxycontin), I wouldn't want anyone in a burqa at my counter. Or a pulled up hoodie and sunglasses combo, or a ski mask. If I can't see your face, I don't consider your actions automatically trustworthy.
And how do I know that you're really just a religious girl under there, and not some sort of thief, or other untrustworthy sort. Hijab, or modesty, does not require full burqa. I understand people's rights to practice their religion, but it ends where it makes me fear for my possible safety.

*smirks* you know, like Scientologists....

[lordlundar]

Thous shalt not suffer a witch to live. Killing is a fundamental part of every religion no matter what some of its sedentary practioners may say.

That was actually inserted into the bible (If I recall correctly, the King James version) as a justification of their actions.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Just throwing this in there:

http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/...ind-the-burqa/

Frankly, I’ve lived on both sides of this debate, and I would like to put the record straight once and for all as I was instructed during my time in a moderately strict Islamic society - to wear a burqa, hijab or headscarf during daily life is not prescribed specifically anywhere in the Koran – it is not wajib (mandatory and prescribed by the Koran), but only sunat (recommended culturally).

So the burqa is not a religious article at all; just something imposed on women culturely?

[Nyoibo]

Which is easily avoided by drinking Vitamin D fortified milk, cod liver oil or one of the many vitamin D suplements available. Rickets really isn't a good arguement against a Burqa, as the arguement could be made that there is less risk of skin cancer because they have less exposure to sunlight to use your words
"Perhaps the sun could be subject to the same restrictions we have on cigarettes, and other destructive substances."

[Talon]

I won't repost what I have in my other thread on the subject. Short version: rickets disease, caused by lack of exposure to sunlight, which can happen from having the body covered up.

Perhaps the all-body-covering burkas could be subject to the same restrictions we have on cigarettes, and other destructive substances.

[Cat]

The whole culture/tradition of head coverings fascinates me....I don't think I could ever adhere to it (being non-reglious and all) but I do respect someone's choice for doing so.

When I get home I'll read the article so I can comment on that, just wanted throw in a thought

[BroomJockey]

There are women who have freely converted to Islam who have chosen to wear the full burqa, so yes, they voluntarily chose to wear it and they weren't conditioned to want it.

95%. It's like, right there in the quote. Geez.

[Nyoibo]

I find it hard to believe that there would be many women who voluntarily wear a burqa or a veil if they had any sort of *real* choice in the matter.

Part the first. Is it really freely chosen? Or is it that they're conditioned to want it from birth by dominating cultural pressures or brutally strict family pressures? Of course they'll say yes, because probably 95% of the time, they can't actually comprehend the idea that it's possible to not.

There are women who have freely converted to Islam who have chosen to wear the full burqa, so yes, they voluntarily chose to wear it and they weren't conditioned to want it.

Funny note, I read an article from a Quran scholar that mentioned there's no such thing as a jihad in the book. It's a complete fabrication and prop by the extremists.

That's usually the case with extremists from any religion to justify their actions.