You don't have a degree so your not educated

[Fashion Lad!]

One of my instructors was saying that, at least in my field, companies hire people with degrees and/or certifications to show that they can be trained. Awesome, huh?

There are people in my class that make me roll my eyes, flail my arms and look for the nearest exit due to their lack of common sense. But in some areas of education, the perform better than me.

The whole "you don't have a degree, so you're not educated" has *some* truth to it. But to say that that having a degree is the say all end all when it comes to who is educated and who is not is just stupid.

[guywithashovel]

People shouldn't assume someone is stupid, uneducated, or any other negative adjective just for not having a degree. Higher education isn't for everyone. Some people just can't learn very well in a classroom environment.

However, one thing that bothers me about conversations like this is that they often devolve into deriding people that have degrees. People often say that they only have book learning with no common sense. Also, sometimes it's said that a degree is "just a piece of paper." I'll be honest, that bothers me, too. I have a bachelor's degree and a master's degree. That doesn't mean I'm superior to anyone else in any way, but I worked very hard for those degrees, and I learned a lot in the process. They are not "just pieces of paper."

Also, I will echo Broomjockey in saying that the stories (usually dubious in origin) of dim witted people with degrees aren't useful. Most of the time, these accounts go something like this:

"My friend Sarah has a Ph.D. in history, and yesterday I found out that she doesn't even know how to fix a leaky faucet. I guess Ph.Ds aren't all they're cracked up to be."

Why is this account flawed? Well, for starters, they usually don't teach plumbing in history graduate school, so knowing how to fix a faucet is totally unrelated to the degree earned. Also, having a degree isn't supposed to mean the person knows EVERYTHING. It just means you are knowledgeable of the subject you earned your degree in. Sarah with the history Ph.D may not know that much about plumbing, but I bet she knows quite a bit about the past. To make a long story short, finding out that a person with a degree isn't skilled or knowledgeable in a certain field or subject does not negate university degrees.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Well, that is certainly fair. When I talk about idiots at Kinko's, I'm mainly talking about people coming over to have us do something for them that they just spent years getting a degree in....for instance, designing something for a graphic artist.

If you have an art degree, don't come over to Kinko's, ask us to do your graphic design for you, and then deride us for being stupid while we do it.

That's what I'm talking about.

I mean, my husband does not know how to put oil and fluids in his car. I do that for him. He'll burn a car up in a heartbeat because he's so clueless about them. He is also an incredibly sought after web developer with a sky high IQ. Busting someone for not knowing how to do a task is not fair. It does not mean they are stupid or incompetent in their field of study.

[guywithashovel]

Yeah, that's all fair, too.

I really wasn't referring to anyone in this thread. I can understand seeing irony in someone hitting up Kinkos for something they should know how to do themselves, especially if they're looking down at the Kinkos staff at the same time. That's pretty dumb on their part. Neither one of my degrees pertain to design, yet I still write my own resumes. Sometimes I get feedback from other people, but that's kind of different.

[crashhelmet]

My opinion of what the OP experienced was simply a status thing. Because he has a degree he automatically thinks he's better than anyone without. Because he makes $60k a year, he's automatically better than anyone who only makes $55k and so forth.

I see that a lot with people that have their MBAs. They're fresh out of school with their degree and think that they automatically know more than anyone else because of it.

To take that and reverse it, I absolutely love this commercial

CH

[Boozy]

Also, sometimes it's said that a degree is "just a piece of paper." I'll be honest, that bothers me, too.

That bothers me, too. I gave up four years of my life for my "piece of paper", and I had to work hard to get it. When I hear someone say, "It's just a piece of paper", depending on the tone, I hear "Any moron can get a degree if they have the money."

[RecoveringKinkoid]

People who dismiss you when they find out you have no degree, are similar to people who dismiss you when they find out you have some sort of brain quirk.

It would almost be forgivable (ignorant, but forgivable. Ignorance can be corrected) if they had a knee jerk reaction initially and then then changed it upon getting to know you. But no, some people get to know you, have hard evidence that you are intelligent and competent, then find out you have no degree or have some sort of learning problem, and then dismiss what they know out of hand and start thinking you are stupid.

How'd you like to go from being the brainy professor type to being the feeble minded college dropout inside of 30 seconds?

[DesignFox]

That bothers me, too. I gave up four years of my life for my "piece of paper", and I had to work hard to get it. When I hear someone say, "It's just a piece of paper", depending on the tone, I hear "Any moron can get a degree if they have the money."

Yea, I have to quote this for truth.

In my experience, I've often gotten made fun of when people find out my degree is Bachelor of Arts with concentration in Graphic Design.

It's like they find out I have an Art degree and all of a sudden I didn't have to do anything to get it.

My art classes were damn hard work, thank you very much. Not to mention all the art history classes, which involve writing same as any other history class...or my general education classes, science and math and language classes that I still had to take on top of it.

I also tend to take a lot of flack because I decided that Graphic Design just wasn't for me (I really prefer the fine arts). So, I work a crappy sales job. I kinda like my crappy sales job. Maybe I'm not adventurous. Maybe I am playing it safe. But you know what? I'm employed!

In regards to everyone else's job experiences, I have actually found myself stuck between a rock and a hard place sometimes. Because of the college degree, some companies won't hire me because I'm "over-qualified." That's right folks. One MALL job wouldn't promote me to management, and that was one of the reasons. They thought I'd leave because I was "over-qualified."

On the other hand, the big companies wouldn't hire me because I had a degree, but "no-experience." I couldn't win. I gave up. Once school was over, I couldn't afford to be an un-paid intern. I needed medical benefits and a paycheck ASAP.

In my personal experiences, I have never discounted someone's intelligence based upon their formal education. My riding instructor is one of the most sensible people I know and she did not go to college. My father is one of the most successful people I know. He's owned his own business since shortly after graduating high school. You don't need the degree to prove you're smart or to make something of yourself.

I think times have changed a bit, and maybe having a college degree doesn't mean the same thing it meant back when my parents were going out into the world. Certain jobs will always require specific training and proof there-of.

But seriously, to look DOWN on someone and discount their opinion based on their schooling? That's bullshit.

[jackfaire]

I have been contemplating getting my bachelor's in psych so I can be a highschool guidance counselor. I think I could do a lot of good.

Some of the people I know with degrees feel like I know more than them because I have "experienced more of life" as they put it.

The funny thing is some of the people that discount my opinions do not themselves hold college degrees.

[AdminAssistant]

Yeah.

4 years to get a Bachelor of Fine Arts in Theatre Performance. 2 years to get a Master of Arts in Theatre History. In the middle of my second year of a doctoral program in theatre. At least 3-4 years to go.

You tell me those are just "pieces of paper" and I'll knock you right in the fucking teeth. I work very hard, with little pay and resources since I'm in the arts. For me, a Ph.D. is an entrance to a teaching position, so that I can finally do what I've been wanting to do - teach college. But all I hear are people saying, "What can you do with a degree like THAT?" My reply is either, "Frame it and hang it on the wall" or "Roll it up and shove it up your inconsiderate ass" depending on my frame of mind.

Neither of my parents went to college (Dad did a little vo-tech). I have a lot of respect for them and consider them to be very intelligent people. A degree has more to do with opportunity than intelligence.

[protege]

Several people have mentioned that a degree doesn't necessarily make someone intelligent...

The 3rd party tech that my boss does business with...is a fucking moron. He does hold a computer science degree, is Micro$haft certified, etc. Yet, some of the simplest concepts (mapping network drives, installing certain cards, etc.) are well over his head.

Yet, whenever something breaks, I can usually get it running again. Keep in mind that I do not hold a computer science degree--but, I do have one in accounting I've had very little training, other than what I've picked up while working here. In fact, I can usually fix the problems much faster than our 3rd party guy can.

Why? Well, it helps if you built the network in the first place, and know your company's computing specifications

[Rapscallion]

Possibly a bit of a tangent here, but a perspective from the other side of the pond. I've just got back from a trip with some chums (just two or three nights), and one of them said that it seemed as if everyone from the US was going to school for about forty years of their lives. I found myself saying some of the things already voiced in this thread - need a degree for what used to just require a warm body (pulse optional).

There's something similar over here - more and more people are getting into higher education, and the exams are getting easier. More and more often you see a demand for someone with a degree for a relatively minor position. When supply outstrips demand, this is what happens - employers can be very choosy.

Rapscallion

[kiwi]

My opinion on this topic may not be popular but here goes away *zips on flame suit*

As University becomes more available, more people get a tertiary education. Therefore it is becoming more standard to have a Bachelor degree in something.
Are you educated without a degree, yes you have a primary and secondary education. If you finished high school.
Are you less educated than a person with a tertiary level degree, yes you are.

Does a tertiary level degree make you any more intelligent/smarter/a better worker/more competent at your job/ able to function in real life. No it does not.

My BF has a diploma, I have a BA. He is by far much more intelligent than I am at physics, chemistry and any kind of mathematics. I am more better than him at subjects such as history and English.
I am technically more educated than he is, but he is hands down a much harder and better worker.

Then there is the debate between formal education and "the school of hard knocks". I believe that someone who has to work their way up from the bottom will usually have a MUCH better understanding of the limits and abilities of those underneath them. Someone who waltzes in with a degree or higher can be utterly useless because they don't understand how things work in real life versus in theory.

Another aspect to this debate is if apprenticeships as valuable as a university education. In my opinion they are and often times much more lucrative. My BF is in the midst of changing from an architecture firm to a trade and although his first years wage will drop below his office job salary, by the time he is a journey man his wage will have almost doubled.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

In my case, here is my problem:
1. I cannot get a degree without some sort of math credit.
2. I cannot pass a college math course. That I was even able to pass one in HS is nothing short of a miracle. And since the logic course they finally allowed me to take instead of math turned INTO math halfway through the semester, you can guess how that ended.

Kids coming through school now have some help in place for them (sometimes) but twenty-thirty years ago, they didn't. So regardless of how intelligent, competent, hard working, etc I am otherwise, it doen'st matter. I can't do calculus, so I should be doomed to be nothing more than a lazy college dropout for the rest of my life.

I mean, none of my other skills matter, right? Fortunately for me, I discovered that while I can't do math, I have a skill of far more value in the real world....the fine art of spinning out some flawless bullshit.

Which is a very useful skill set to have regardless of what field you end up going into.

But hey, I'm not bitter or anything.

[DesignFox]

Things have changed a lot RK. For one, you're right, there are a ton of programs available NOW that were not available when you went to school, I'm sure.

Depending on the degree, they don't require Calculus, anymore. I know I did not need to take Calc to get my Art Degree. I actually took higher level math classes in HS than I did in college. I just wanted to get my 3 credits and be done with it. My professor gave me an automatic pass on the final because I hadn't scored less than 100% on any of her tests through the semester, and she requested I think about joining her next semester class. *shrug* Anyway, that's how basic the class I took in math was. It certainly wasn't easy for everybody...but it wasn't Calc, either!

I know that my college offered study programs for students with learning disabilities, and untimed testing/tutoring for certain students who just didn't test well, but otherwise understood the class material. I tutored for one such student in biology. With my help, and the extended text taking period, she was able to go from F's and D's, to C's and B's.

It is a shame that stuff wasn't offered to you. Because you certainly sound intelligent to me. To hell with the higher maths. If you wanted to be a physicist or a rocket scientist of some sort, that would be a different story. But that doesn't seem to be your career path of choice...so....