The Credit Card ID Debate

[chops]

Carried over from CS:

It is a well-established fact that many stores, as policy, require their staff to ask for ID from customers who present a credit card or credit card-branded debit card for payment.

It is also well-established that Visa and MasterCard explicitly prohibit refusing a sale if a customer refuses to present ID, assuming the card is signed. The accepted practice by their standards is to check signatures.

That leads to an impasse when a customer who believes the latter encounters a cashier who is obligated to enforce the former.

I've found that nearly all merchants in my area either don't bother checking, or check signatures. One merchant asked for ID. Contrast this to Virginia, where I spent a year and a half; any merchant that checked anything preferred to check ID instead.

I wondered for a long time why so many of these companies are willing to stick their necks out by making a policy that directly contradicts their merchant agreement.

My opinion is this: there are three types of merchants.

1. The merchants that don't bother checking at all. I'm guessing that most merchants fall in this category, particularly supermarkets and convenience stores.

2. The merchants that check signatures. This varies from region to region.

3. The merchants that check ID. This also varies, but more regions have more merchants that fall into this category.

Also consider that many people choose not to sign their cards (or "sign" them with "See ID" or similar), technically rendering them invalid. Options 1 and 3 are easier for merchants to deal with customers. Option 2 causes more trouble with customers, because there's the matter of not only asking for ID, but telling the customer they need to sign the card, which usually never ends well. I know this not only from reading posts on CS, but my and my gf's own experience.

Some people think that it's easier to forge signatures than to forge ID. That depends on the signature...maybe mine is easier to forge than, say, my father's (mine is a chicken-scratch type of signature, whereas my father's is more artistic). Visa's Merchant Rules has this to say:

In reality, criminals don't take the time to practice signatures: they use cards as quickly as possible after a theft and prior to the accounts being blocked. They are actually counting on you not to look at the back of the card and compare signatures—they may even have access to counterfeit identification with a signature in their own handwriting.

I still wonder why it's considered safer to check ID instead of signatures. If nothing else, it seems like less hassle for the merchant. I don't knock anyone who wants their ID checked; that's their right to request it. It's just not necessary, according to the credit card companies.

[Sylvia727]

I've been working as a cashier for two and a half years now, and I have never heard any rules on checking either signatures or IDs, either from my employer or from the credit card companies. I check IDs on gift card purchases over $50. That's simply my own homegrown rule, no boss' input, because it makes my customers feel more secure. I've been asked to show ID in either (A) every store in a certain chain and (B) every store in a certain mall. Apparantly these are the rules in this chain and this mall, even if my purchase is a $4 sandwich. It hasn't been a problem yet, but I just know that Murphy will smite me with a forgotten driver's license one day soon.

[Boozy]

There is a vast difference between the US and Canada on this issue. And I have no idea why that is.

Here in Canada, I have never ever been asked for ID when using a credit card. After reading some stories on CS, I asked around - and my husband, my parents, my sisters, and my best friend have also never ever been asked.

So its just not happening here.

I rarely sign for my credit card anymore, either. Anything under $100 is pretty much swipe and go.

And these are Visa and Mastercards I'm referring to. Same companies as in the US.

[chops]

My guess is that the ID thing started with the people who write "SEE ID" or similar on the back of their cards, and those in retail who did that thought it was a good idea to apply that to customers, and their employers in turn thought it was a good policy.

I'm also thinking it's a regional thing, like I mentioned in the original post. I've yet to see it happen in Vermont, mainly because photo IDs aren't mandatory unless you're getting your Vermont license for the first time or you already have a Vermont photo license. The one time I was 'carded' in this area was just over the state line in New Hampshire, at a SuperCuts, and the 'stylist' (and I use the term loosely when it comes to chain-cutters) didn't even look at the back of the card.

I rarely sign for my credit card anymore, either. Anything under $100 is pretty much swipe and go.

Here in the US, that tends to apply to purchases under $25. Some supermarkets and drugstores have taken advantage of that rule, and don't bother checking at all, making it a swipe-and-go affair.

Curiously enough, the Apple Retail Stores don't collect signatures at all, and ask for ID instead. Now, I can see this for the only reason that there's no signature to compare. But the odd thing is that there are so many different philosophies, so why doesn't everyone just come up with one uniform way of running credit cards? And why isn't the way the credit card companies say to do it good enough?

[AFPheonix]

Eh. I've only ever been asked to show id if my signature on the card is obliterated from using it too much

I myself only ask if the person has indicated that they wish ID to be shown upon pickup of their med or if they write CID on the card. Cracks me up when they decline, even though they've written their express desire to show id.

My job is a little different in that I already know the name, birthdate, phone and address of the person before they even pay.

[CancelMyService]

In my direct experience in retail (and this seems to be enforced in a lot of the stores on CS), almost all of the people who write "See ID" on their cards are the type looking to play gotcha with the sales clerk. Not to mention for people who are so self confident of their correctness, they sure get bent out of shape when you mention not signing your card = invalid.

[IDrinkaRum]

As soon as I get a credit card, I ask immediately for a photo ID. Then I flip the card over and check signatures. Heck, I even eye the picture and the customer in front of me.

At Borders, if you buy anything under $50, you don't have to sign anymore. Best Buy if you buy anything under $25. I was shocked by it the first time I encountered that. However, I rarely buy anything under $25 @ Best Buy and anything under $50 @ Borders so usually it's a moot point.

*knocks on wood* I have never had a customer (in the 4 months I've worked at the Gaming Store) yell at me for asking for ID.

[AFPheonix]

We don't sign for anything under $25 in the front of the store and for $50 in the pharmacy. If they've put their credit card on file with us for an express pay account, they don't need to sign at all.

It's always so cute when you get a brainiac with an unsigned card and I remind them to sign it. They protest that if they do and if someone steals the card, they're get their signature stolen too. They get a little stricken when I point out that all the thief needs to do is sign the card themselves and now they don't have to try to make handwriting match at all anymore.

[Primer]

Because of needing a paper trail for my medical expenses, darn near everything does on the MC now. 90% of the places require a signature, but don't seem to bother to check them. The pharmacy doesn't even need me to sign for the charge, but does require my ID for the drugs themselves (opiates).

What really threw me for a loop was when my veterinarian did not have me sign for a charge...for over $1000! But then again, they do know me and my animals a little too well! If anything needs done, we just take the animal in and tell them, "Do whatever."

Thank goodness MC loves me!

And when I had to replace the washing machine last week, I remembered that the salesperson at Sears asked for ID last fall when I replaced the refrigerator, and had it out before she even asked this time!

[lordlundar]

It is easier to check ID then the alternative. What is the alternative? A contested purchase. This means that the notice gets sent to the bank, who sends it to the company, who sends it to the store, who has to find the physical receipt (also why a number of places stopped doing phone orders) that has it signed, who sends it back to HO, who verifies it and sends it to the bank, who verifies it and sends it to the CC company, who makes the ultimate decision.

If a 5 second request can stop a rough total of over 20 hours combined worth of work, I'm all for it.

Now as for why the CC company doesn't to avoid this hassle as much as possible is beyond me.

[powerboy]

I always sign See ID. That is because I want them to actually make sure that it is me, that is using the card. I never get bent out of shape, if they don't ask. And if they complain about the signature not being on there, then yeah I will say something.

[DesignFox]

It must be a regional thing. I never get asked for ID when using a credit card. Shit, rarely does anyone even bother checking the signature. *shrug*

I have encountered the occasional person who writes "see ID" on the card. I always ask those people for ID. And never once has anyone had a complaint. One woman even told me that I was one of the few who looked at her card and bothered.

The card companies do protect people from identity theft, and have measures in place so that you can dispute charges if they are illicit.

I'm careful but not paranoid.

I wouldn't flip out if someone asked for my ID.

[fireheart17]

what about those who write "Photo Required" on theirs?

[Slytovhand]

Obviously quite different over here.

We're supposed to check signatures, because failure to do so = loss of revenue. Checking a signature is to ensure the card is being used by the correct person who has the authority to use it.

Unfortunately, most people don't bother... which annoys the crap out of me! They know they're supposed to, because they take the card to 'verify' the signature - but automatically authorise the sale even before I've laid my hand on a pen! How ridiculous!!! I even once refused to sign the docket when someone did that... let them explain it to the manager why there's a docket with no sig that they authorised. (trust me - if you've had a card stolen and $$$ racked up on it, you'll understand). It takes all of a couple of seconds to check a sig.

Fortunately, now our cards are pin-able

[pile of monkeys]

I always check signatures. If someone writes "See ID" or similar in the signature field, I ask for an ID, even though it says on the card, directly above the signature field, "Not valid unless signed," and "See ID" is not a signature. I don't generally point that out, though, because it's one fight I don't particularly feel like getting into over and over again. When I received my new credit card, the little paper that came with it even specifically said that the card must be signed before use, and "See ID" or similar phrases are not considered valid signatures (unless your name is actually See Id. Which I suppose is possible.)

For an unsigned card (nothing in the signature field), I always ask for a photo ID, and I do (nicely) tell the customer that they seem to have forgotten to sign their card, and they might want to do that since any merchant can refuse an unsigned card. (Remember "Not valid unless signed"?) Nine time out of ten, the customer tells me it's to prevent identity theft or in case their card is stolen or whatever, and I tell them a quick funny little anecdote about the guy who had his wallet stolen, the thief signed all of his unsigned credit cards, and charged up a storm without being questioned because of course the signatures matched. Honestly, leaving your card unsigned just doesn't make sense for so many reasons. First, it invalidates your card, and according to the merchant's agreement with the company, that card can be refused. Second, the aforementioned "a thief could sign it" thing.

This is a particular peeve of mine, since at busy times, the whole ID/unsigned card nonsense makes every transaction take at least twice as long as it should, even without my little anecdote. Just asking for the ID, waiting for them to dig it out, etc., that just takes forever.

And don't get me started on the people who write "See ID" then get pissed when you ask for ID. Or the people, who when writing a check and you ask for their license, just say, "Oh, my number is..." and start rattling off a series of numbers. Um, yeah, I can do that, too. 6577200465041. Sure, why not. That's my license number. Don't you trust me? I need to SEE the license and write down the number I see. Grr.

(I'm in the US, incidentally.)