Foreskin-Man! comic

[Sage Blackthorn]

Ok,
Here is the thread that brought me here from The Devil's Panties forum. As you can see, it's a link to an obviously political web-comic that is opposed to the practice of male circumcision:

http://www.foreskinman.com/index.htm

I had pointed out that Penn&Teller did an episode of their Showtime Series "BullShit!" on this subject:

Did you ever see the episode of Penn&Teller's "Bullsh!t" on circumcision?

and

What I found particularly poignant was when the doctor said that the reason male infants don't cry when the procedure is being done (without anesthetic mind you) is not because it's painless, but because newborns have not built up any sort of pain resistance so the pain is so overwhelming that they are overloading and go into a catatonic state to protect themselves. In short, their nervous sytems gets overloaded and blows a fuse. Kinda makes ya' wander what kind of damage that does to a baby.

Now this is where the call to take the discussion here was made, so that's where I intend to continue it from since The Devil's Panties "Off Topic" section is suppose to be "a fun, silly, non-political" area of discussion...and the membership there has taken the thread that way INSTEAD of coming here to discuss the issue. At least one person in the original thread said they "Agreed" to take the discussion here, so let's have it. Talk, discuss, hash-out....ready? Start!

[the_std]

I am completely of the mindset that circumcision is cruel and unnecessary except in cases of immediate medical problems. The foreskin does so much for the penis. It contains a lot of nerve endings, protects the penis against the wear of being in contact with clothing and therefore keeps it more sensitive, otherwise a callous or thicker skin can develop, and it also acts as a lubricating device to keep sexual activity moist, as it traps sweat, pre-cum and other bodily fluids, and therefore less likely to damage or tear the skin under duress.

As a woman, I also prefer the look and feel of an uncircumcised penis. They are easier to manipulate without causing pain to my partner, and that is a big thing. The foreskin is also fairly easy to keep clean, so claims of circumcising for hygiene reasons are quite bogus, especially in this day and age.

The fact that we remove a piece of a sexual organ from infant males for no good reason besides outdated social conventions makes me upset. It is appalling that this is allowed to continue.

[Rebel]

Gotta love Penn and Teller.
I watched the same episode. Never took much notice to circumcision until then as I am 1) a girl, and 2) have no children yet.

I now kinda see circumcision as a purely cosmetic procedure that is only really due to the desires of the parent.

One way to look at it is to compare it to babies who already have pierced ears (more prevalent in little girls). The baby obviously didn't have any desire to have pierced ears, it was parent who thought that it would add to the cosmetic appeal of their baby. If you've ever been in the room when someone gets their ears pierced then you would know that it hurts like hell. It's even more evident in young children who haven't built up any sort of pain tolerance. Children scream like you're trying to kill them. Imagine what a baby would feel.
I had my ears pierced when I was 6 for my birthday just like my older sister. It was only ever offered to us when we were old enough to understand that it would be painful and after we had seen someone else getting their ears done beforehand. My younger sister was so scared watching someone getting their ears pierced that she refused to do it until she was nearly 10.

I see circumcision in the same way. It hurts, doctors know it, and I'm sure any man could tell you that it's not fun getting a cut on their dick. And it's simply so the penis has a more pleasing and streamline appearance.

I think "Bullshit" also addressed a few of the main points that pro-circumcision people proclaim to anyone who asks.
1.) A circumcised penis is more sensitive - better sex life.
2.) Less chance of infection.
3.) Less social embarrassment.

To which they pointed out;

1.) A circumcised penis is actually less sensitive. The foreskin is a protective cover for the penis and it is full of lots of delightful little nerve endings. Once it's removed, the sensitive nerves of the head of the penis are slightly buried under several layers of slightly callused skin to protect them. That and the foreskin during sex is like wearing a ribbed condom all the time (for her pleasure).
2.) Penis cancer. Rare, but it does happen. If an uncut man ever gets it, the doctors remove the foreskin as treatment. If a cut man gets it, part of the penis has to be removed. And there is no greater chance of an uncut man contracting an STD compared to a cut man as long as he practices safe sex.
3.) Mutilation of the body to save them from ridicule from their peers? That doesn't sound healthy. How about working on their self-esteem instead?

So, yeah. I don't agree with circumcision at all. I plan to keep any possible future sons of mine uncut. Better for them, and that way I won't feel like a monster.

(I really don't like parents who have their babies ears pierced either can you tell?)

[Sage Blackthorn]

I am completely of the mindset that circumcision is cruel and unnecessary except in cases of immediate medical problems. The foreskin does so much for the penis. It contains a lot of nerve endings, protects the penis against the wear of being in contact with clothing and therefore keeps it more sensitive, otherwise a callous or thicker skin can develop, and it also acts as a lubricating device to keep sexual activity moist, as it traps sweat, pre-cum and other bodily fluids, and therefore less likely to damage or tear the skin under duress.

As a woman, I also prefer the look and feel of an uncircumcised penis. They are easier to manipulate without causing pain to my partner, and that is a big thing. The foreskin is also fairly easy to keep clean, so claims of circumcising for hygiene reasons are quite bogus, especially in this day and age.

The fact that we remove a piece of a sexual organ from infant males for no good reason besides outdated social conventions makes me upset. It is appalling that this is allowed to continue.

I am in full agreement. Furthermore, to me, as it's a matter of aesthetics in most cases, I feel that each and every man should have to choice to have the procedure or not upon reaching adulthood. Doctors don't know what they hell they may be messing with! I'm reminded of some of the recent finding about the Appendix. For YEARS Doctors thought it had no purpose, that is was a vestigial organ that didn't do anything. Recently it was discovered that people who had suffered from severe diarhia or some other kind of intestinal illness who still had their appendix recovered their normal digestive function FASTER than those who'd had it removed. This turns out to be becuase the appendix provides a place from which the beneficial bacteria is protected and can, in effect, re-colonize the colon and get back to doing their symbiotic job of breaking down what we eat so our bodies can absorb the nutrients.

The foreskin obviously evolved for a purpose. Those who had them became more represented in the gene-pool. The arrogance implicit in a doctor that tells parents their newborn HAS to have this proedure just because it's always been done is staggering. Who is this doctor to quesiton millions of years of trial and error?

[Nyoibo]

Actually I'd say that the foreskin didn't really evolve but is left over, most animals have their penis in an internal sheath.

Meh, not like I can miss it and it hasn't really effected my sex life, although I think I'm actually glad I'm not more sensitive down there.

[AdminAssistant]

After I watched that episode of Bullshit!, I talked with my fiance about it, and we came to the conclusion that if we have a boy, we will not circumcise him. It just seems so cruel....

[MaggieTheCat]

I think it's completely inappropriate to do an irreversible procedure on an infant before they have a chance to make any decisions themselves. If a boy grows up and decides, for whatever reason, that he wants to get circumcised, fine. It's his decision (so long as he's old enough to understand what it all involves and it really is his decision, not his parents pressuring him when he's still young to do something he doesn't understand and may not want.) I understand the pierced ear analogy, but even that is not nearly as severe as circumcision since earrings can be taken out and the ears will (mostly) repair the damage. If a girl gets her ears pierced as an infant and decides she doesn't like earrings, she can simply stop wearing them when she gets older. A boy who gets circumcised as an infant has no way to reverse the procedure later in life.

I don't want children, but if I did and had any boys, they certainly wouldn't be circumcised unless they made that decision themselves when they were old enough.

[Rebel]

A boy who gets circumcised as an infant has no way to reverse the procedure later in life.

Yes you can. It involves weights, stretching skin in an uncomfortable place, and time.
There was a guy in the Penn and Teller episode who had it done.

[MaggieTheCat]

Okay, so pretty much everything is reversible these days, but it doesn't sound easy or pleasant and I'm sure it's not cheap. With pierced ears, take the earrings out and you're done. With circumcision, it sounds a bit more complicated, to the point that, why would you do it to an infant if he decides he wants to reverse it later on and have to go through the whole reversing process? It's closer to getting a tattoo; much more permanent and harder to reverse, and you don't see many parents letting their kids get those until they're in their teens at least.

[Sage Blackthorn]

One of the fundamental arguements that I've heard against circumcision goes beyond the physical effects and gets to the heart of the arguement: Does a baby have the right to control it's own body? There was at least one judge that said "Yes, it does, in regards to elective surgery," when a young man who had been circumcised as a baby sued his parents for either allowing it, or ordering the doctor to do it....in either case it was done without his consent....and he won the case. As I remember, it had to do with it being a cosmetic procedure and not being life saving in any way....it was elective surgery. So any of you guys who want to sue mom and dad for genital mutilation without consent....there's a precedent on the books that says you have a case.

[fireheart17]

After I watched that episode of Bullshit!, I talked with my fiance about it, and we came to the conclusion that if we have a boy, we will not circumcise him. It just seems so cruel....

In Australia, circumcision is no longer done unless it's for religious purposes or for medical reasons. (and if you are having it done for religious reasons, I do believe that the person must be qualified to do so?)

My ex-boyfriend wasn't circumcised and he's unable to retract his foreskin when he gets an erection. It actually stretches around the erect penis....he's been more focused on stretching it since he does not have the money for the operation.

[Rageaholic]

One of the fundamental arguements that I've heard against circumcision goes beyond the physical effects and gets to the heart of the arguement: Does a baby have the right to control it's own body?

Yes yes and yes.

While I could understand it for medical emergency's. Doing it because of some outdated cultural tradition without the child's consent is unethical and stupid. We have advanced medical knowledge about these things which should be the deciding factor. You can respect other's cultures, but when they don't respect the rights of individuals, fuck em.

[Rapscallion]

Yes you can. It involves weights, stretching skin in an uncomfortable place, and time.
There was a guy in the Penn and Teller episode who had it done.

It gets back to looking similar, but it's impossible to replace the lost nerves.

Rapscallion

[Rebel]

It gets back to looking similar, but it's impossible to replace the lost nerves.

Rapscallion

True. That's why I don't agree with it at all.

[crashhelmet]

Everyone I know that is uncircumcised has had infection issues in some way, shape, or form. Apparently it's not as easy to keep clean as one would believe.

CH