"Speak English" sign in Philly restaurant

[Jadedcarguy]

Not been to England, have you? All council documents that I've seen have sections for various different languages.

In Europe I'm not surprised that's the case. Driving from country to country there is like driving from state to state here. If Californians spoke a different language than Oregonians, I'm sure the official documentation would be in both languages.

Does it irritate me? Slightly. Does it bother me enough to complain about it? No.

Would complaining get you anywhere?

[lordlundar]

You'd do that in Mexico??? Let me save you the trouble........BAD IDEA. The do not take kindly to gringos telling them how to run their shit.

Hence the point in brackets.

[Jadedcarguy]

Hence the point in brackets.

An environment where you wouldn't get shot or beaten to death for that is "north" of Mexico.

[Greenday]

An environment where you wouldn't get shot or beaten to death for that is "north" of Mexico.

Yea, but Philly isn't the friendliest place in the world either.

[Dorath]

Yea, but Philly isn't the friendliest place in the world either.

Try Denver. Not being hispanic in some areas is enough to get run out of the neighborhood.

[aniwahya]

I think this is the fault of the United States government. A national language needs to be declared. What language(s) is listed as the national language doesn't matter to me, we just need some guideline or unity so we have a place to stand on.

Then again, I have had the experience of being on the inside of an immigrant community where there was no sense of urgency in learning English in order to better communicate and assimilate into American society. Which from my perspective is disrespectful to not even try. My great grandfather moved his family to the US from Germany, They barely spoke any English but upon moving here my great grandfather delivered the ultimatum that there would be no German spoken in his household, only English. Also, I would never dream of moving to France, Russia, China, Japan, etc and demanding that they speak English in order to accommodate me.

That gets complicated though, because you can never be truly sure that someone isn't trying to learn the language. Also I make an effort to communicate with people irregardless of what language they speak., and I think having a national language declared as English and Spanish would be a good thing since there are definite benefits to being multilingual and maybe it would give kids more insight into other cultures before they get so old they are jaded.

* Er, I was replying to this thread, but then noticed there is a national language thread separate from this one. While I feel that my post is appropriate in regards to this thread, when I posted it I had not yet seen the other th read, so there may be some overlap and for that I humbly apologize.*

[powerboy]

I have absolutely no problem with people posting signs like that.

Here's the deal: I feel if people come to America, they need to learn the language or at least provide their own translater. At the same time, if I go to Germany, I would try and know enough of the language to get me through. I would not get mad at Germans because they don't know English. When traveling or moving, people need to take responsibility enough to learn the native language.

Exactly. If I moved to another country, I will try to learn atleast some of the language before hand.

And for the sign. If they are not racist about it, then to me it is fine

[Slytovhand]

Hello?? hello???? Sorry - but I don't understand a word that's gone on here... except from my fellow Aussie Seshat... (damn non-Strine speakers....)

Citizen or not if you do not have the basic decency/capacity/motivation to learn the lingua franca of the nation you are in then you dont deserve to be there <snip>.

hahaha - sorry - I was amused (my emphasis inserted...)

Anyway, back to the debate...

How about a sign that said 'Ordering in any other language will be met with a blank stare' - because that's effectively what the owner is getting at. Yeah - a bit of delicacy wouldn't have gone astray...although the irony is - if those people don't speak English (or american) - then they aren't going to understand the sign anyway...

Over here, migrants and refugees are offered FREE English classes, and we now have English as part of the citizenship test (which they reckon is too hard - I have a bit of an issue with that, given that I, for one, have to open accounts - read legal entities - and talk about legal terms and conditions - to people who may not fully understand what I'm saying. I'm not sure that having their 9 year old translate is going to be a good legal defence to say they understood.....)

Btw - you wouldn't have that much of a problem going through much of Europe, especially the touristy places, speaking only English. For that matter, most tourist destinations in Europe have people speaking 6 languages fluently. Of course - that's different to expecting them to understand, and getting narky when they don't!

Slyt

[Lace Neil Singer]

Where I am, we occasionally get foreign workers who come thru the checkout giving me the blank stare when I try to ask them to give me their flipping money. However, it isn't possible to tell at once the difference between the "you are beneath me" stare, the "equivilent of braindeath" stare and the "sorry, I do not speak English" stare. I just wish these people could at least learn how to say "Sorry, I only speak a little English" and say it straight up, rather than expecting me to either read their mind and instantly guess that they aren't English, or break into French/Spanish/German/other. Sorry, but my French makes French people split their sides laughing. XD If I go to France tho, I use it cuz it's only right.

[ebonyknight]

I've been to this guy's store. I go to Philiy on business once or twice a year. This guy is no where near hurting. His cheese steaks are so famous he has on his website "we do not ship cheese steaks".

As far as I am concerned, this is just like with smoking establishments. It's his shop, he pays the taxes, it's his business to prosper with or ruin. Despite the sign, he does a massive amount of business.

It's his store and his product. If he wants you to stand on your head and recite the national anthem to get one of his cheese steaks, it's his prerogative. Otherwise, you can go elsewhere.

The language problem really pisses me off. I asked this guy on his bike where a particular path led to. I asked him several times, several different ways and he didn't understand me. I said thanks and in an accent as good as yours or mine, he says "no problem". WTF????

[tropicsgoddess]

Adapt and Assimilate

I came to the US at 4 years old with my middle sister and parents from South America. We assimilated to the culture and learned the language, .You can still be in touch with your native language and/or culture, but you must adapt to the country you immigrated to. So, I'm siding with the man for his sign.

[Flyndaran]

I know that I would avoid the business and anyone that frequented it.
The vast majority of non-english speakers in the U.S. are not white, so it seems like an oblique way to be racist.
How would it seem if he barred those with fros? There are white people with fros, so it's not racist, right?

[Rapscallion]

He didn't bar people with fros, though. He's decided that he will ask that people who place orders give them in English. He will take a minor loss of revenue, but as a private business owner he is within his rights to enforce this policy. It makes things far easier for his staff, and he doesn't have to make sure there are people who can speak more than one language on the rota at any one time.

Rapscallion

[Flyndaran]

He didn't bar people with fros, though. He's decided that he will ask that people who place orders give them in English. ...
Rapscallion

But that's not what he wrote. He instead used intentionally inflamatory language and a subtle racist rant.
A reasonable sign would be, "Please order in english." simple, direct, and not bigoted in any way... and shorter too.

[daleduke17]

But that's not what he wrote. He instead used intentionally inflamatory language and a subtle racist rant.
A reasonable sign would be, "Please order in english." simple, direct, and not bigoted in any way... and shorter too.

"This is America" is not inflamatory language. Nor is it racist. It is telling the truth. When did it become bigoted to say that in response to wanting people to use a common standard to conduct business. If this was Mexico and someone wrote "This is Mexico When ordering, speak Spanish" (in Spanish, of course) would that be bigoted as well?

"When Ordering, Speak English" is reasonable. Not everything has to have "please" or "thank you" on it. If it was just this, would you have a problem with it?