"Speak English" sign in Philly restaurant

[daleduke17]

Yea, but Philly isn't the friendliest place in the world either.

Isn't Philly the "City of Brotherly Love"?

[lordlundar]

Isn't Philly the "City of Brotherly Love"?

Ask someone in the Philly Transit Authority about that and see how quickly you get laughed at.

[ebonyknight]

"This is America" is not inflamatory language. Nor is it racist. It is telling the truth. When did it become bigoted to say that in response to wanting people to use a common standard to conduct business. If this was Mexico and someone wrote "This is Mexico When ordering, speak Spanish" (in Spanish, of course) would that be bigoted as well?

"When Ordering, Speak English" is reasonable. Not everything has to have "please" or "thank you" on it. If it was just this, would you have a problem with it?

Quite true.

In a lot of non-western languages, expressing thanks or being polite (IE using please in every question/statement) is too formal and not done except in uncommon circumstances. In other words, saying please and thank you in quite a few asian languages (not sure about arabic), is unnecessary and can be taken to be patronizing or speaking awkwardly. Hindi, is a good example.

A more common example would be with using the same word as hello and goodbye. Very unusual in Western languages, but common in non-western ones.

Sorry to jack, with that little bit of info.

[Flyndaran]

"This is America" is not inflamatory language. Nor is it racist. It is telling the truth. When did it become bigoted to say that in response to wanting people to use a common standard to conduct business. If this was Mexico and someone wrote "This is Mexico When ordering, speak Spanish" (in Spanish, of course) would that be bigoted as well?
...

Yes it was inflamatory. Unless you really believe that non-english speakers are so stupid as to not know what country they're in, it's is exclusionary language. It is in essence saying that your kind are not part of america.

If mexico is fraught with such bigots, then yes a similarly worded sign in spanish would be racist.

The rest of the sign is perfectly reasonable and simply states facts without any underlying racism.

In X years if you're in your old age home and the country's demographic has changed to make spanish the most commonly spoken langugae, would you be as blaze when similar signs pop up making you feel as if this isn't your nation?

[wanderingjoe72]

If mexico is fraught with such bigots, then yes a similarly worded sign in spanish would be racist.

This will probably stray OT quite a bit so I give my apologies now.

Ahh where to begin?

As an American of hispanic descent, and having grown up in border states (Texas, New Mexico and Arizona), I speak English and Spanish. Am I grateful for that, yes. It helps a lot when I go down to Mexico. I am able to conduct business easily. Has it come in handy elsewhere? Yes, when visiting a multinational base in Sarajevo, I was able to freely communicate with the Spanish and French soldiers there and made some friends.

To the item I quoted, Mexico is fraught with bigots, probably more than the US is. It is part of the culture in a lot of the regions and poorer neighborhoods I grew up around it, so I have seen it. Non Mexicans are mocked unless there is money to be made off them. It sickens me since my fiance is white.

I guess it is the fact that I have grown up on the borders that gives me my views. True Mexicans, love Mexico, they will travel like any other person in the world. They will be tourists see things and spend money, but they will go back to Mexico. The Mexicans that have tainted so many peoples views are the poor, uneducated (many are illiterate in their own language) that have come here through illegal means. They do not wish to assimilate, they wish to invade. They don't want to learn the language. They only seek to get as much as they can. They want to be catered to in their language because they are not Americans and don't want to be. Thes are the people that GreenDay encounters. They are angry because they are not being served in their language. They have moved north because the border states have made it harder for them, We don't want them here. It is not a racist thing, it is more of a nationalist thing. There are groups in the US and Mexico that believe that the southwest should be taken back as it was "stolen" by the white man. These groups also call anyone that doesn't want to throw the borders wide open a racist (but only the Mexican border, not the Canadian one because they are white too).

I am an American, put me next to a Mexican and you probably would have a hard time telling the difference. Am I tired of people coming up to me assuming I speak Spanish? Do I resent being told I should support "la raza" and I should be down with the cause? Yes, an emphatic yes.

What is the big deal? I guess I am tired of being prejudged (yes we do this no matter how much we deny it) against a group that I don't identify with or support just because I look like them.

Take what you will out of this rant. Thank you.

[Jadedcarguy]

Wanderingjoe, good post.

[The Shadow]

Trust me, outside of the US this touchy feely "pander to everyone" crap does not exist.

Rapscallion already answered this by suggesting you may never have been to England and I'll second that by suggesting you may not have been to Canada either.

Here, we're officially billingual -- English and French. All federal government offices must provide service in both languages, even in areas where francophone populations are very small to almost non-existent. At the same time, the province of Quebec is officially unilingual and the government has no qualms about enforcing the supremacy of French. So much so that for some time now, Quebec has had it's own language law known as Bill 101 which mandates that all signage for commercial business must be solely or predominantly in French. Under the law it *is* permissible for a business to have signs in other languages, but the French signs must be either bigger, have bigger type or be more numerous. In other words, French must be predominant and the law is actively enforced. Those enforcers have come to be dubbed "the language police"

In any other part of the country this would be completely unacceptable. If anyone tried to use similar tactics to enforce the supremacy and dominance of English somewhere like Ontario or BC and they'd have human rights commissions breathing down their neck in no time. Quebec however gets away with it largely because they can always use the threat of separation to get what they want.

[The Shadow]

"This is America" is not inflamatory language.

Actually, yes it is. In this case context is everything. Even immigrants who don't speak the language know bloody well they're in a foreign country where their native tongue isn't predominantly spoken, so telling them "this is America" as if they didn't know is condescending and patronizing.

So yes, in that context it *is* inflamatory.

"When did it become bigoted to say that in response to wanting people to use a common standard to conduct business.

Sometimes it's not so much WHAT was said, but the WAY something is said.

"If this was Mexico and someone wrote "This is Mexico When ordering, speak Spanish" (in Spanish, of course) would that be bigoted as well?

Yes it would.

[Greenday]

Actually, yes it is. In this case context is everything. Even immigrants who don't speak the language know bloody well they're in a foreign country where their native tongue isn't predominantly spoken, so telling them "this is America" as if they didn't know is condescending and patronizing.

So yes, in that context it *is* inflamatory.

The sign is directed to the morons who expect the workers to speak a language that isn't the common language spoken locally. They have absolutely no reasonable reason for expecting them to speak something other than English. I've dealt with people who for some dumb reason believe I should speak a different language. Saying that I don't speak whatever language they want doesn't matter. Being kind doesn't matter. Obviously they've been put through enough crap that they felt they needed to stop being nice and they felt they needed to start being a little ruder to get their point across.

[Boozy]

Sometimes it's not so much WHAT was said, but the WAY something is said.

Quoted for truth.

"Please order in English so we can understand you. Thank you!"

- versus -

"THIS IS AMERICA. Order in English."

How is the difference not obvious?

[The Shadow]

The sign is directed to the morons who expect the workers to speak a language that isn't the common language spoken locally.

As someone already pointed out, if they can't speak the local language, then they're not going to be able to understand the sign anyway. So having it is really an exercise in futility to begin with.

I've dealt with people who for some dumb reason believe I should speak a different language. Saying that I don't speak whatever language they want doesn't matter. Being kind doesn't matter. Obviously they've been put through enough crap that they felt they needed to stop being nice and they felt they needed to start being a little ruder to get their point across.

That must be incredibly frustrating and maddening and I totally sympathize. To be honest before reading this thread I had no idea it happened so frequently. But like I said, putting up this sort of sign is pointless to begin with and the only thing it *could* conceivably do is offend foreigners who do make an effort to speak the language and fully expect business to be conducted in the local language. It could be misunderstood as "This is America and we don't like hearing foreign languages at all" or the owner could be seen as prejudiced and presumptuous to assume that any non-native person who comes into his establishment is going to be incapable of speaking English and expect to be served in their own language, hence driving away more potential customers.

A smarter thing to do would have been to have the sign printed in the language of the foreign language most frequently encountered stating politely and apologetically that while they're happy to serve everyone in the community, they can only offer service in English. The translation of such a sign would cost very little I would imagine. But the owner is so frustrated he doesn't feel like being polite and tactful about it, you say? Well, that's unfortunate. But you know what? Being frustrated and angry doesn't give you the right to be arrogant and direct that anger towards people who've done nothing to deserve it.

[AdminAssistant]

And it's part of this Anglophone obsession with only speaking one language. English is a very weird, strangely constructed language with an intensely maddening vocabulary. The previous worldwide predominant language (in the Western world) was French. For every 1 word in French there are 5 words in English. That, and the fact that we accept every 'slang of the month' phrase into our dictionaries makes English a little frightening.

If I saw a sign like that, I'd turn around and leave. It shows the owner's personal bias towards 'Americans' and against foreign tourists or students who happen to have gone through life without *gasp* learning English. Or those who speak English as a second language and may have a strong accent and difficulties with the vocabulary or grammar.

Personally, I think we should all loosen up a bit and start learning other languages. Spanish, French, German, Mandarin - even if it's just to realize that there is a world out there that does not speak your language.

Here's an Eddie Izzard clip, just to lighten the mood:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFrTRJP2Ha4

About 6 minutes in.

[Jadedcarguy]

Rapscallion already answered this by suggesting you may never have been to England and I'll second that by suggesting you may not have been to Canada either.

I've been to neither, but I have been outside of the US. No one gave a shit if I spoke their language or not and I was pretty much brushed aside because of it. Thus my point of view.

[Greenday]

It shows the owner's personal bias towards 'Americans' and against foreign tourists or students who happen to have gone through life without *gasp* learning English. Or those who speak English as a second language and may have a strong accent and difficulties with the vocabulary or grammar.

You call it bias, I call it sick and tired of dealing with assholes who refuse to speak the local language. At least most people who don't speak English or are learning English make an effort to work with the workers. But there are so many ridiculous people who expect us to cater to them because they don't WANT to learn English that it is beyond frustration.

[Sylvia727]

The article says that they were tired of going through the menu line by line. Many people find to easier to read and write than to speak and listen. In that case, a written sign would work. I mean, if you can read "sandwich" on the menu, then you can probably read "English". Yes, the language is inflammatory. I chalk that up to the guy's frustration. Someone who expects you to hold up the lunch rush to read through the entire menu with them isn't a very nice person to begin with. I can't imagine dealing with that on a daily basis, and then dealing with all of the other customers whose orders were delayed because of someone who couldn't learn enough English to order lunch.

I live in an immigrant neighborhood, and I worked at the local fast food. It's not hard to learn the dozen words necessary to order. Yeah, a lot of them had their kids order, or placed odd orders like "fish burger" or "chicken parts", but they could get their point across without rudeness on their part or mine.

The guy was just as rude as the customers who prompted him to put up the sign in the first place. We should always try to be the better person and rise above the sucky behavior of other people, but I don't see this guy as being racist or exclusatory, just frustrated and short of temper.