suburbians vs. rancher

[Hello Kitty]

Thought I'd throw this one out. This happened several years ago. Couple and dog trespass into grazing pasture, couple lose sight of dog. Dog chases cattle, ends up shot dead. Note that the article is skewed to the side of the dog owners.

http://www.metroactive.com/papers/me...dogs-0019.html

[daleduke17]

Thought I'd throw this one out. This happened several years ago. Couple and dog trespass into grazing pasture, couple lose sight of dog. Dog chases cattle, ends up shot dead. Note that the article is skewed to the side of the dog owners.

http://www.metroactive.com/papers/me...dogs-0019.html

This is ridiculous. The farmer was in the right and the dog owners were in the wrong. If they really cared about their dog they wouldn't have been trespassing in the first place.

[Norton]

I'm on the side of the rancher.

Hall says he thinks the Santa Teresa dispute is a case of suburban homeowners not wanting to accept the realities of rural life.

That's exactly what it seems like to me. Some people seem to think that farms and ranches are like admission-free parks and petting zoos. Ranchers have every right to protect their livestock - by deadly force if necessary.

Anyway, how dare people move into an area, then demand that the local residents change their way of life to accomodate them? Bear should never have been on someone else's private property in the first place, and especially should not have been allowed out of the owner's sight. A simple leash would have prevented everything, but no - they're trying to restrict the rancher's right to discharge a firearm instead.

Kids go up there in the hills. Yeah, they're trespassing, but given the fact that there are a lot of homes up there, both at the top of the hill and at the bottom, it seems like a reasonable thing to have the Board of Supervisors pass a restriction on discharge of weapons in that area."

Again, why are children being allowed to trespass? Just because the area is more rural, doesn't mean it's less dangerous.

It upsets me that so few people seem to believe in personal responsibilty anymore.

[Greenday]

Ok, so they admitted to trespassing, they admitted they had no control of their dog, and they admitted the dog went after the guy's cattle. The dog was a threat to the guy's livestock. He has a right to defend his property.

[MystyGlyttyr]

Dude, I live in the WOODS. It doesn't get any more rural than where I live. And I go wandering around the woods a lot, have since I was a kid. BUT, I know where the boundaries are. I've always known where it was and was not safe to tread. And when I come to a fence, I DON'T cross it. How hard a lesson is that?

...obviously, very hard...

[Boozy]

I hate that a dog was killed because of his owner's mistake.

The rancher's livestock was not likely in immediate danger. No single dog can take down a heifer. They're huge. I suspect that the rancher's concern was that the dog would get the herd riled up and possibly start a stampede. That's fair, I suppose.

We'd get stray dogs chasing our herds every once in a while, and I'm sure that the thought of shooting and killing the dog never even crossed my dad's mind. We'd just corral the herd and/or the dog, whichever was more malleable at the time. Happened dozens of times without anyone or any animal getting hurt.

[AFPheonix]

No, but that single dog could run a heifer through a fence and potentially seriously injure her that way.

Good thing those people aren't out here in wine country where shells go off regularly to scare birds off the grapes, or live next to my target shooting neighbors or the duck hunting clubs in these parts...

If I had a dog that was going after one of our foals, I'd shoot it if I could, too. These animals are worth a lot of money.

[Zyanya]

The dog might not be able to take down a cow, but he could succeed in injuring it.

[protege]

The dog might not be able to take down a cow, but he could succeed in injuring it.

Exactly. My grandmother lived out in the country. For years, she always rented out the pasture to various neighbors...all 80 acres of it. Usually, we had about 40 or 50 cattle around...all of which were worth some serious cash. Most of the farms had beef cattle of some sort, but a few had dairies as well. If one of those cows (or sheep, as we have those too) was injured, I'm sure their owner wouldn't be too happy about their livelihood getting damaged as well. As such, many *will* shoot at trespassers.

When I was growing up, I was always told to take the "No trespassing" or "posted" signs very seriously. Many people do not take kindly to idiots on their land. As such, whenever my father and I would go tracking deer...we always made sure to get permission first.

[Zyanya]

When I was growing up, I was always told to take the "No trespassing" or "posted" signs very seriously.

I grew up in a neighborhood that had a guy who thought it was hilarious to keep vicious dogs and sic them on other people's animals.

If I am in my front yard with a gun and see a strange dog running at my animals/kids with no human accompanying it, I can't guarantee I won't shoot. Fuck, if it's off leash, I may shoot even if the human is there if the dog is actively being aggressive.

And for this purpose, I include the wild game that likes to scavenge in my yard as 'my animals'. If your dog comes into my yard to tear apart a wild rabbit, I have every reason to believe it is willing to do the same to my niece's pet rabbit when she's outside with it.

I'm a fairly good judge of animal behavior. I know the difference between a dog approaching aggressively and a puppy that slipped it's leash and thinks it has found a new friend. But for safety's sake, if you have a houdini dog that isn't fully trained yet, make sure your neighbors are familiar with the dog so they don't mistake it for a stray.

[rahmota]

The rancher's livestock was not likely in immediate danger. No single dog can take down a heifer. They're huge. I suspect that the rancher's concern was that the dog would get the herd riled up and possibly start a stampede. That's fair, I suppose.

Just to chime in late here. Like was already stated the cow doesnt have to be brought down to be injured to the point where putting it down would be more effective or humane than to let it live. As well as running an entire herd of cattle into a fenceline, a gully, a dry wash, a tree line or whatever barrier. you think the day after thanksgiving sales crush try being in front of a herd of stampeding cattle. We used to raise cattle when i was a kid and if one gets spooked enough then they all go flying off in one group. A group that if they hit a barricade will not always stop in time to avoid having the back of the herd ram into the front crushing them, pushign them into the barrier stronger. Bad stuff.

And yeah whatever happened to respecting people's boundaries? Those people where jerks and I dont blame the rancher in the slightest. In this county the law is on the farm owners side. A loose dog gets in with the livestock the sheriff encourages people to shoot it. Saves him the trouble of dealing with it.

[DesignFox]

I definitely side with the rancher on this one.

He had a sign clearly posted, and those morons ignored it. It is a true shame that the dog had to pay the price for his owners' stupidity.

I'm from suburbia. I don't know shit about rural life. But I DO know that if someone posts a sign telling you to keep out or they'll shoot- they mean it!

Furthermore, I wouldn't presume to wander into my next door neighbor's backyard here, why would the rules be different anywhere else?

It's just common courtesy not to let your dog out on someone else's property... nevermind that in this instance it was also a threat to a man's livelihood!

[flybye023]

I grew up on a farm. We didn't have livestock but at one point we did have an adult sheep that a neighbor had given us as a lamb to raise 'cause the mother had rejected it. The sheep had free range of the yard as did our 9 month old puppy (mutt, but had the look of a yellow lab) the two often played together and slept together. Imagine our dismay at arriving home from church one day to find the poor sheep standing in a bloody mess, its skin hanging it sheets and the puppy also covered in blood and still nipping at the sheep.

To those who argue that a single dog can't harm a single herd animal, bullshit. Cattle and sheep stick together. They are trained to defer to a dog. They will try to save themselves eventually, but often, not soon enough.

[LewisLegion]

As a dog owner and lover, TOTALLY on the side of the rancher here.

A LOT of people are idiots where their dogs are concerned. They think behaviors are 'cute' that are actually signs of neuroses, insecurity, and aggression. They don't want to believe their dog can hurt anything or would hurt anything. They over-humanize their pets (oh, Fluffy just wanted a new friend to play with).

What it comes down to is dogs are predators. What might start out as play quickly becomes a predatory chase/destroy instinct in most dogs when confronted with a fleeing animal acting in a fear response. My boxer cuddled with my cats and treated them like kids, but if one ran for some reason her first instinct was to chase it. Some dogs may have escalated beyond that and killed the cat if it was caught.

The rancher has hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in his animals, and a responsibility to protect those animals just as someone else has a responsibility to protect their dog or cat if it were suddenly being attacked. He doesn't know the dog. He does know the damage the dog can cause very quickly.

The owners were idiots for letting their 'child' run around loose like that and not having him leashed.

The owners were idiots for trespassing on someone else's property.

The owners are further idiots for assuming their dog couldn't hurt a fly and that the responsibility lays on anyone else's shoulders for what happened than firmly on THEIRS.

If my dog got out and got shot because she was found in some rancher's field chasing their sheep, chickens, cattle, goats, ducks, llamas, whatever, I would feel terrible but it would be no one's fault but my own.

[Nyoibo]

No single dog can take down a heifer. They're huge.

Wanna bet? I've seen it, 1 dog, hamstrings the cow then goes for the throat, 1 dead cow in under 90 seconds.

This also touches on another subject which is a major thing with me, urban encroachment, people moving to the "country" because it's the country, but then getting pissy and demanding that farmers who have been on that land for over 100 years change or stop what they're doing because it inconveniences them.