yellow cards

[BlaqueKatt]

I saw an article posted on another website about these.

basically it's a business card sized magnet with the following(or similar) printed on it:

"This magnet was tossed onto your car by a cyclist who felt that you had been driving in a way that could endanger their life.

They chose to toss this magnetic note because it can neither damage your automobile, nor will it disrupt your driving. It serves as our communication in a world buffered by steel, glass, and speed.

With mutual respect, we can each adjust our behavior to allow all people to live in safety.

This is a yellow card, your awareness can keep us out of the Red."

Amazingly-the response from the posters on two different websites were all up in arms about how "passive-aggressive" and "smug" the people using these would be. Some even went so far as to say, "if anyone put one of these on my car I'd run them over/kill them*" It's a magnet, that harms nothing, it won't even scratch your paintjob-is it really something to KILL another human being over FFS?

Personally, I'm thinking of getting some, as it seems a better idea than the "typical reaction" of some cyclists, to kick, smack with a lock, or other dangerous things. And maybe the driver will read it and be more aware of their surroundings while driving, or maybe they'll just toss it in the trash-it harms no one. I don't drive, but I'd like to think if a driver saw one of these on their vehicle, the reaction would be, "oops, that must be from when I was messing with the radio/digging through my purse/checking my phone, I could have hurt someone, I'll try to be more careful." I honestly think that is the intent behind it. As they are being marketed more towards the non-aggressive, law-abiding, cyclists. As the "scofflaws" are more apt to either yell, or kick/hit with an object-this is from personal observation of many cyclists both on the streets and on the bike paths.

Remember-I do obey traffic laws, and have been nearly run off the road by a driver that was steering with his knees while trying to light a pot pipe while driving( I was in the bike lane), been hit by a woman talking on a cell phone that ran through a red light, and had drivers pass me close enough(law is three feet of space when passing, and I get over if I can to let the cars pass safely), that my pedal scratched their paint, or I ended up with a side mirror shaped bruise somewhere on my body(usually arm-though I have been nailed in the back once, and shoulder from trucks a couple times)


*it also devolved into, the standard car v. cyclist BS, like "bikes don't follow traffic laws, so they don't deserve respect", "car drivers break the law too", and the erroneous arguments of "cyclists don't pay for the roads*", "roads were built for cars", "bicycles belong on the sidewalk" so can we please not do that here, I'd rather just discuss yellow cards-good idea/bad idea, are they smug and passive-aggressive?

*well written article on that here-which uses the data from the pdf

[protege]

I always try to give cyclists plenty of room. Locally, the vast majority...are fucking idiots. I can't count the number that I've seen blow through traffic lights (or stop signs), riding down the lane dividers, or making turns across multiple lanes without even looking Locally, it's pretty rare to see a cyclist *not* do those things--that's why most drivers hate them.

With all that said, I don't these things are a good idea. You don't know the mental state of some people--putting a magnet on their car would be a bad idea. You don't know who is packing heat, and who would go so far as to run someone off the road. I know, that if someone put one of those things on MG (I don't care if it "won't scratch the paint" It's my vehicle--did I give permission for the magnet?), I'd be seriously tempted to hurt them. I probably wouldn't, but with some people, you don't know

[AdminAssistant]

Bad idea. Besides, you're complaining about car drivers on cell phones, being distracted, etc....how can you properly steer a bike and dig a magnet out a bag and throw it on the car?

[Ree]

Bad idea. Besides, you're complaining about car drivers on cell phones, being distracted, etc....how can you properly steer a bike and dig a magnet out a bag and throw it on the car?

This!!!

I think the magnets are a passive aggressive way of handling it, but I guess, if the cyclists can safely toss them onto the cars of drivers that have just behaved in a way that could endanger someone on a bike, then they might serve a purpose.

[BlaqueKatt]

With all that said, I don't these things are a good idea. You don't know the mental state of some people--putting a magnet on their car would be a bad idea. You don't know who is packing heat, and who would go so far as to run someone off the road. I know, that if someone put one of those things on MG (I don't care if it "won't scratch the paint" It's my vehicle--did I give permission for the magnet?), I'd be seriously tempted to hurt them. I probably wouldn't

you'd be tempted to commit a serious crime(assault), in retaliation for a non-criminal act? Sorry that seems to be pretty skewed priorities(as in my property is more important than anyone's life). That would not go over well-affixing a non-damaging magnet would not even be considered vandalism(vandalism requires actual serious damage) Especially as the magnet is in reaction to ENDANGERING A HUMAN LIFE in the first place.

If someone is so mentally unstable as to harm someone over a magnet-should they really be out in society? I know of people that could possibly kill another human for making eye contact with them, should I go around terrified that everyone is like that?

if they didn't notice me, are they going to suddenly become aware that I stuck something on them? in order for me to get one of these onto a vehicle-said vehicle has to be in violation of a state statute which carries a $200 fine(three foot passing law-I have been advised by a few officers to actually damage the vehicle, stop, contact the police and inform the driver the police are coming, once the vehicle owner says I damaged their vehicle by kicking it-they are admitting to being in violation of the law, and they get a ticket-I get nothing)

Bad idea. Besides, you're complaining about car drivers on cell phones, being distracted, etc....how can you properly steer a bike and dig a magnet out a bag and throw it on the car?

it only takes one hand or less to steer a bike, hence not having to stop every time I signal a turn, grab my waterbottle, shift(you can't shift unless moving and my shifters are not on my handlebars they're on the downtube, I shift without looking it's instinctive for a cyclist to do these things without looking), etc. and I have one of these(not this exact model)-so no "digging in a bag", I can grab anything out of it without ever taking my eyes off the road in front of me-that's what it's designed for(to hold energy bars/glucose gel). It's safer than a car driver reaching for a cup of coffee or digging in a fast food bag for their meal, as I know, without looking, exactly where it is on my bike. I've never seen a car driver not look when reaching for something in a cupholder-and how many hands are on the wheel when opening a soda/water bottle in a car?

*it also devolved into, the standard car v. cyclist BS, like "bikes don't follow traffic laws, so they don't deserve respect", "car drivers break the law too", <snip>" so can we please not do that here, I'd rather just discuss yellow cards-good idea/bad idea, are they smug and passive-aggressive?

<rant about cyclists not obeying traffic laws>With all that said

wow one post in the door I was purposely blocking gets thrown open-nice

[Kaylyn]

What's funny is a lot of cars nowadays are mostly fiberglass, and not magnetic. I know on my car I wanted to put a bumper sticker, but wanted to stick it to a magnet first rather than stick it directly to my car. The only place on my car that was magnetic was my trunk. So this might not work quite as well as the cyclists intend it to.

[BlaqueKatt]

What's funny is a lot of cars nowadays are mostly fiberglass, and not magnetic.

today's vehicles are on average 63% steel,or over 1800 pounds of it, which is magnetic.

Plastic parts are mainly trim(bumper, mirrors, etc.)-the bulk of the vehicle-doors, body panels are still made of steel for safety concerns.

average car weighs over 3000 pounds, of which only 260 pounds are made of plastic.

[protege]

you'd be tempted to commit a serious crime(assault), in retaliation for a non-criminal act

Uh, where did I say that I'd actually go through with it? Being tempted to do something is much different than that.

I know of people that could possibly kill another human for making eye contact with them, should I go around terrified that everyone is like that?

Not what I'm saying at all. But, you *don't* know how people will react. Some people might not care at all. Others might get upset...and choose to take it out on you.

[Andara Bledin]

Uh, where did I say that I'd actually go through with it? Being tempted to do something is much different than that.

In the quote you quoted he speaks specifically of you being tempted, and not doing it. Even being tempted to go off on someone for slapping a magnet on your car because you nearly ran into them is a mindset you might want to take a closer look at.

Somehow the thought that your property is more important than their wellbeing (whether because you hit them with your car on accident, or you attacked them for the magnet itself) seems to be a sign of a greater issue.

And, again, if a person is so self-absorbed in whatever it is they're doing that they don't notice/respect the cyclist in the first place, why would you think the application of a magnet to their body panel would make any difference? The types of magnets used for this purpose are soft and tend to make almost no noise going on.

Honestly, the vast majority of unsafe drivers are that way because they don't know any better. I'm of the opinion that they should expand the driver-cam thing I've seen used for problem teen drivers to everybody learning how to drive. That way people can review, when they're not trying to deal with the actual driving, how they really drive and not how they think they drive.

^-.-^

[blas87]

If I saw one of those on my car, I'd probably flip out.

Papers on windshield wipers are harmless also, but I get upset when I leave a store and see someone putting ads on people's cars. DON'T TOUCH MY FUCKING CAR!

How would you like it if I put something on your bike that said "The middle of the road is not an appropriate place to peddle during rush hour, thank you kindly !"

[Boozy]

I don't think the magnets aren't specific enough to do any good. Inconsiderate and careless drivers are usually oblivious to which of their driving behaviours are dangerous. They simply aren't putting enough thought into the process.

Whether they get angry or not upon seeing the card is beside the point, because I think they'll mostly be scratching their ignorant heads wondering what the hell they did.

[Bloodsoul]

So what if the cyclist misses and the magnet ends up flying into the face of a driver with his window down?

[Cats]

How would you like it if I put something on your bike that said "The middle of the road is not an appropriate place to peddle during rush hour, thank you kindly !"

I would like to point out, that in my state anyway, a cyclist is allowed to take up the whole lane if they wish. Most I have seen, myself included, do not if there is adequate room otherwise (and sometimes, there just isn't), but that doesn't change the fact that (here), a cyclist has just as much right to the road (and as much obligation to follow the rules) as a motorist. Now, if they're not cycling WITH the flow of traffic, then you have a legitimate gripe.


As for the cards, not a bad idea in theory, but it just wouldn't work. Most motorists I see blatantly break traffic laws and just don't give a flying heck. I've lost count of how many times I've nearly been hit in a crosswalk with the signal (and nevermind it's one with a bell sound that activates with it, loud enough to be heard from my 8th floor apartment). Genunine accidents do happen, yes, but the vast majority of the time it's because someone made a careless but avoidable mistake; and they know it too, and don't care. Motorists and cyclists both make these errors, but since sadly the motorists are the majority and have a few thousand pounds of metal at their beck and call, well, frankly, the less I do to piss them off, the better, even if from a legal standpoint, I'm not doing anything wrong.

[linguist]

if they didn't notice me, are they going to suddenly become aware that I stuck something on them? in order for me to get one of these onto a vehicle-said vehicle has to be in violation of a state statute which carries a $200 fine(three foot passing law-I have been advised by a few officers to actually damage the vehicle, stop, contact the police and inform the driver the police are coming, once the vehicle owner says I damaged their vehicle by kicking it-they are admitting to being in violation of the law, and they get a ticket-I get nothing)

i'd be dubious of this advice at best. police officers really shouldn't be handing out legal advice, and in fact are prohibited to do so in many places. depending on your local regulations, the officers who advised you of this could face disciplinary action. in any case, even if you face no criminal charges, you could still be liable for civil damages, and with your name in the public record from the filing of the police report, it would be much easier for the driver to track you down and take you court.

also, in many localities, throwing an object--any object, no matter how small--at a moving vehicle is a criminal offense. here's just one such regulation i found in a quick google search, from washington:

9.195.010 Throwing objects at moving vehicles.
Any person who throws, pushes, rolls, drops, swings or otherwise propels or projects any object, thing or substance in such a manner as to strike or be likely to strike any moving ve hicle on the public highways or streets is guilty of a misdemeanor. (Ord. 992 § 1 (part), 1996).

like someone mentioned previously, what if you missed and hit a driver or passenger through an open window? ianal, but i'd think they'd have a case against you for assault. extra points if there's a child in the car, then you could possibly be facing additional child endangerment charges.

[BlaqueKatt]

How would you like it if I put something on your bike that said "The middle of the road is not an appropriate place to peddle during rush hour, thank you kindly !"

inconvenience =/= endangering a life

me biking to/from work during rush hour does not endanger your life it is merely a MINOR inconvenience, car passing me with 6 inches of clearance at 45mph could kill me(especially if they knock me off balance by hitting me with their mirror)-HUGE DIFFERENCE.

Ok so people that work jobs that end at rush hour should be forbidden to bike to work? Even if, as in my case, it's the only way I can get there, or should I wait around after work for an hour or more before I go home? I wear bike shorts and a cycling jersey on my commute to/from work-can you tell me from a "recreational rider"-nope. Heck, Mayor Dave wears bike shorts and a jersey when commuting to work-so "that idiot in spandex" in our fair city may just be the damn Mayor on his way to work!

I'd pull out my wallet card of the WI state statutes that say by law-I have to be three feet from the curb and three feet from parked cars-which puts me in the middle of the lane if I'm following the law-or are cyclists only supposed to follow the laws that don't upset inconvenience drivers , or the ones that drivers know(yes cyclists in WI do have laws that drivers don't, and some laws drivers follow do not apply to cyclists)-hey we can legally run a red light, provided it's been red for at least 45 seconds and it's safe to do so, as there are traffic lights that only respond to vehicle weight-346.37(1)(c)4. Did you know that law? Or would you assume the cyclist was "illegally" running a red light, and get mad at them for "breaking the law", when they are not.

I've had people yell at me to get on the sidewalk because it's "illegal" for me to be in the road-actually it's illegal for me to be on the sidewalk.


And putting something on my bike(as long as I'm not moving), would be better than getting screamed at, honked at, or having objects thrown at me. Mind you out of my 4 mile round trip daily commute I'm only on the road with vehicles for a grand total of 6 city blocks-rest is bike path-in six blocks, following the law, I normally have 2-3 very close calls.

also, in many localities, throwing an object--any object, no matter how small--at a moving vehicle is a criminal offense.

I don't plan on "throwing them"-I would reserve them for the cars close enough to touch.