Confederate Flag Outside Courthouse Proof of Racist Rulings?

[jackfaire]

Put simply, if you assume that secession is possible, then the South became its own country and the North then invaded it. Invading another country is usually considered an aggressive act.

Secession is and was possible by laws and yes essentially we had to invade them to get them back however it's kind of one of those chicken and the egg things.

If we had let them become their own country would they have left us alone or would they have tried to take over

[Andara Bledin]

Secession is and was possible by laws and yes essentially we had to invade them to get them back however it's kind of one of those chicken and the egg things.

If we had let them become their own country would they have left us alone or would they have tried to take over

Not really. If the US had become less united, it's very likely it wouldn't have been strong enough to stand alone and there might be no States, united or otherwise. This was a fact that Lincoln was very much aware of.

^-.-^

[mikoyan29]

Not really. If the US had become less united, it's very likely it wouldn't have been strong enough to stand alone and there might be no States, united or otherwise. This was a fact that Lincoln was very much aware of.

^-.-^

The Confederacy wouldn't have stood very long on it's own. If I remember currectly, there was no central currency and no standard rail gage. If you wanted to take a train across the CSA, you had to switch at the state borders. Also each of the Armies were raised by their respective states. A proper Navy was pretty much out of their reach which is why it was easy for the North to blockade them (although had the UK or France decided that they wanted to trade more, it might have been dicey for the North).

[jackfaire]

There is a fascinating documentary about the CSA that looks at world history might have looked like if the South had won.

[AdminAssistant]

Trade with the UK/France, particularly cotton, played a much bigger factor in the Civil War than anyone realizes. The South had a good that the rest of the world wanted, needed, and would pay a premium for. The North didn't. As I've said pretty much any time this topic comes up here, and it does come up a lot, much of the Southern resentment about the Civil War comes from how shittily we were all treated during the Reconstruction. No right to vote, no right to property, corrupt political officials taking office over local protest. All Southerners, regardless of whether or not they owned slaves, regardless of whether or not they were abolitionists, had to be well and truly "punished".

[jackfaire]

much of the Southern resentment about the Civil War comes from how shittily we were all treated during the Reconstruction.

That I get and can understand but it doesn't change that the governments of said people said, "We should leave the union because they are trying to take our slaves"

Which well it's hard to separate the supporters of that from the people who were like, "Wait we are doing what now? No that's stupid why are we doing that?"

[mikoyan29]

Trade with the UK/France, particularly cotton, played a much bigger factor in the Civil War than anyone realizes. The South had a good that the rest of the world wanted, needed, and would pay a premium for. The North didn't. As I've said pretty much any time this topic comes up here, and it does come up a lot, much of the Southern resentment about the Civil War comes from how shittily we were all treated during the Reconstruction. No right to vote, no right to property, corrupt political officials taking office over local protest. All Southerners, regardless of whether or not they owned slaves, regardless of whether or not they were abolitionists, had to be well and truly "punished".

The south got off pretty lightly compared to other civil wars. Typically, the leaders of rebellions find themselves getting hanged, shot, drawn and quartered or some other nastiness. If we would have gone by the letter of the law, every person who took up arms against the United States could have been tried for treason and killed.

[Rapscallion]

The south got off pretty lightly compared to other civil wars. Typically, the leaders of rebellions find themselves getting hanged, shot, drawn and quartered or some other nastiness. If we would have gone by the letter of the law, every person who took up arms against the United States could have been tried for treason and killed.

True, but I think it may be partly to do with memories of the Independence shindig. That would have been fairly uppermost in the minds of people, knowing that if they'd failed then the British crown (or its operatives) would have exacted a heavy toll and they wouldn't want to be like that. Just a hypothesis.

Rapscallion

[jackfaire]

True, but I think it may be partly to do with memories of the Independence shindig.

Rapscallion

*Nods* Also what they did created less resentment. Yeah people were like "this sucks we are being treated like shit" but honestly the North wanted to gut the South's ability to rise again for at least a generation or two.

Two ways they saw of doing that was

1) Kill everyone involved after trying them for treason which well that is a lot of people and there has been enough killing.

2) Take away their rights to help make governmental decisions and their ability to wage war.

The first would have taken "the South will rise again" and made it a serious threat that would have festered until the Second Civil War broke out making the first look like the Picnic pickup game of football that they thought it would be.

[ShinyObject]

If I were Black and on trial any place in the South and that includes the Wild West, I would be terrified if the court house I was tried in flew the battle flag. I lived in Mobile, AL for almost 5 years in the late 80's - early 90's and I can tell you that the Klan is still alive and well as is an incredible hatred towards Blacks. Not every Southerner is racist, probably even the majority aren't, but the ones who are more than make up for the ones who aren't. And far too many of the ones who aren't particularly prejudiced can dig deep and find some if needs be.

I'm not sure what the love is for the battle flag as it is not the official flag of the Confederacy. It has become a symbol of racism and hatred and on that basis it should be quietly put away. The swastika is an ancient symbol that used to mean luck but after what the Nazi's did to it, no one wants to see it flapping around either.

The Civil War was anything but and I don't know why it is still being fought. You'd think a war that pitted families against one another would be thought of more like Viet Nam...a sad time that cost our nation dearly.

At any rate, I hope this guy gets a new trial. Even if he's guilty he should at least feel as if he was in a fair court -- although I'm not sure that's possible for a Black man in the South. And that's a sad commentary in an age where we can walk on the moon and inspect other galaxies.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

.... much of the Southern resentment about the Civil War comes from how shittily we were all treated during the Reconstruction. No right to vote, no right to property, corrupt political officials taking office over local protest. All Southerners, regardless of whether or not they owned slaves, regardless of whether or not they were abolitionists, had to be well and truly "punished".

You know, I'm sorry but I have huge issue with this.

Everyone who was alive during Reconstruction is dead now. Nobody alive today has any business getting resentful because "we" were treated shittily. Because not a single soul down here, black, white, or whatever, was treated shittily during any stage of the Civil War or Reconstruction. Because if they had, they'd be dead now.

Now, if they want to complain about current affairs in the South, fine. That's a whole other issue. But to say "We are pissed off because of how we got treated during Reconstruction" is just embarrassing.

It's no different than these dumb rednecks driving around with the "Hell no, we ain't fergittin!" bumper sticker on the back of their pickup truck. "Fergit" what? That asshole can't fergit something he doesn't remember in the first place!

[protege]

Now, if they want to complain about current affairs in the South, fine. That's a whole other issue. But to say "We are pissed off because of how we got treated during Reconstruction" is just embarrassing.

They're still pissed over the fact that they lost a war over 140 years ago. Seriously, get over it

[RecoveringKinkoid]

But that's the thing, right? They didn't lose shit. Unless they're over two hundred years old, no they most certainly did not.

Here's the other thing that kills me. If you suggested for a minute that any one of these battle flag waving "Confederates" were unAmerican or traitorous in any way, they'd blow a gasket. I've have, no lie, seen "Proud to be an American" on one side of the bumper and "Hell no, we ain't fergettin'" on the other.

How the hell does anyone with two brain cells to rub together square those two sentiments? If the Confederacy had gotten it's way, the south would not be part of the US! So shouldn't they be THANKFUL they lost and not bitter about it? I mean, given the level of national pride the average redneck has and all (and I honestly don't even mean that sarcastically).