Sexism = Sexism

[anriana]

Whether it is "good" sexism ("men shouldn't hit women") or "bad" sexism. Any form of sexism is based on different regard and treatment of the sexes, and any form of sexism generalizes and stereotypes the sex is it biased against.

[Slytovhand]

What about biological differences, that can come across in society? Or historical?

I presume you are against religiously 'inspired' sexism?

In many ways, I agree. There's a bumper-sticker around here "Stop Violence Against Women", which I'm inclined to get and cut of the last half of...

There's a book I have..'Why women can't read maps and men can't listen' (or some such similar.. can't be bothered trying to find out atm). It's actually about (to an extent) evolutionary biology and how it relates to society. Way back in the good ole days of living in caves and all, men were the hunters, for various reasons (not all merely physical) and as such, needed skills such spatial orientation, so those abilities were enhanced (or they got killed..), while women were much more communal (and needed to learn when to run), so they used listening skills more so while still being actively engaged in other tasks.

Where does that sort of generalisation and stereotype fit in?? Cos I hate it when the basics of differences can't be cited, and are considered to be 'generalisations and stereotypes'. (because you can't, really, in easy communication, talk about a group without finding some connection - even though individuals may not fit the pattern)

Slyt

[DarthRetard]

I agree with Slyt in a way here, because some biological differences are indeed just that, biological.

The strongest woman will never be as strong as the strongest man. Sexist? No, physically true.

I've become more concerned with good and bad stereotypes, like "Oh, he's asian? Have him help me with my calculus..."

Or, one that actually does piss me off.."Oh, he's black/hispanic/etc, better try not to offend him."

[kamn]

Hmmm, gentelmen are sexists. One of the biggest ones. And usualy get screamed at the least. Though, they usualy DO listen to the other one if they do something wrong (paying for dinner, holding the door, sheltering women from abusive drunken idiots). I wonder if its a good thing to be a gentelman in this age?

[Slytovhand]

Hmmm, gentelmen are sexists. One of the biggest ones. And usualy get screamed at the least. Though, they usualy DO listen to the other one if they do something wrong (paying for dinner, holding the door, sheltering women from abusive drunken idiots). I wonder if its a good thing to be a gentelman in this age?

Thanks for that

I 'loathe' being called a 'gentleman' - and will say so too, when someone says it!

Not because I won't hold open a door (if you're holding something in both arms, it makes sense... or if you're right behind me or something), or pay for you (if you don't have the cash.. but you'd better give me some comeback on it), etc, but because a 'gentleman' is expected to do that... regardless. And, only for the women-folk.

And for that matter... this whole term annoys the crap out of me, because then it can get turned around. We could go get a coffee or something, but you're out of cash til next week. No biggie.. I'll pay this time... oh, no... can't do that... that's not right...! Yeah - crap... just deal with it... it's the way humanity is supposed to work!


Slyt

[kamn]

Loathe? Nah, its meant as a compliment, and thats the way I usualy take it.

The thing is, that while myself and many of my friends act as gentelmen, we dont do it becosue the person is female, becouse we would think she needs help becouse she is female, we do it becouse we want to help. Sadl, not many see it that way...

[Greenday]

I generally try to be a gentleman. I open doors for my girlfriend. I work more than her, so I tend to have more money, so I just pay for takeout and stuff a lil more often than not. But I don't get excessive about it. There's being polite, and there's being obnoxiously polite.

[MMATM]

Let me voice my agreement with Slyt's first post. Biological differences are far more significant than societal or historical differences. Not that society and history haven't been sexist since the dawn of man (though they were almost certainly less sexist before major civilizations formed).

Like others have said, I don't mind being called a "gentleman" because I don't know anyone who uses the term as an insult or generalization. It's always intended as a compliment when I hear it, so I receive it as such. And also like others, I'll hold the door for anyone regardless of their sex or whether I know them or believe them capable of holding the door themselves. In my experience "gentleman" doesn't mean "person who pays for everything and goes out of his way to help women" as much as it means "well-mannered male individual".

[Boozy]

I will call men "gentlemen", and I also refer to certain women as "ladies".

These are people who take time out of their day to do small favours for people of either sex, like holding a door for the person behind them, or help an elderly or infirm person get their groceries out to their car. I only mean it as the highest sort of compliment.

[powerboy]

What is wrong with being called a gentleman? I take pride in being one. Granted I don't always pay for dinner, when I take someone out. I do hold doors open for both men and women.

To me, a gentleman is someone who has manners and actually uses them

[crazylegs]

There's a book I have..'Why women can't read maps and men can't listen' (or some such similar.. can't be bothered trying to find out atm).

Its "Why Men Don't Listen & Women Can't Read Maps" By Allan and Barbara PEASE, its well worth a read (even just to find out why men can never find the butter in the fridge!)

[IDrinkaRum]

My husband can find the butter in the fridge. He even cooked dinner Saturday, Sunday & Monday evenings!

I was the map reader on family trips.

For the record, I'm a girl.

[Boozy]

They gave their book an incendiary title to sell more copies, which is a shame. Because the science is pretty solid.

They don't mean women can't read maps. What they're saying is that the average man will be slightly better than the average woman at map-reading because of the wiring of their brains. And the average women will be able to spot the butter in the fridge faster than the average man because of their superior peripheral vision.

These aren't really earth-shattering concepts. The differences between men and women are becoming increasingly unimportant in modern times.

[MystyGlyttyr]

I couldn't find the butter if it were sitting on my cokes and waving, and I can usually visualize a map from memory after looking at it. It's kind of amusing whenever this topic comes up because I almost always fall in the realm of what guys do and out of the realm of what girls do. Hence a big part of the reason why I used to ask my mom if I was born a boy.

There's always those weird exceptions skating around out there, heh.

[anriana]

What about biological differences, that can come across in society? Or historical?

Such as?

I presume you are against religiously 'inspired' sexism?

Of course.

There's a book I have..'Why women can't read maps and men can't listen' (or some such similar.. can't be bothered trying to find out atm). It's actually about (to an extent) evolutionary biology and how it relates to society. Way back in the good ole days of living in caves and all, men were the hunters, for various reasons (not all merely physical) and as such, needed skills such spatial orientation, so those abilities were enhanced (or they got killed..), while women were much more communal (and needed to learn when to run), so they used listening skills more so while still being actively engaged in other tasks.

Where does that sort of generalisation and stereotype fit in?? Cos I hate it when the basics of differences can't be cited, and are considered to be 'generalisations and stereotypes'. (because you can't, really, in easy communication, talk about a group without finding some connection - even though individuals may not fit the pattern)

It depends on what you do with the information. Do you say "men in general have trait X... okay..." or do you say "men are better at X so we won't allow women to do anything that involves X?" Because that's what's been done historically, and that's what many people and cultures still advocate.