Isn't this what the census form was for???

[RecoveringKinkoid]

So, I just got back from an out of town trip (I've been living out of a suitcase for pretty much two months, off and on.) to find this "Community work project survey" in my mailbox. Apparently they want to build a sidewalk on my street because my street is considered a "Low to middle income neighborhood" and is eligible for funding for such projects. A sidewalk would be awesome. I hope we get one. We had to pay for our pavement and street lights out of pocket.

It asks a bunch of questions, including but not limited to:

How many people live there?
How much is your family income?
What ethnicity are you?

I got the thing late last night and it was due today or tomorrow. Some census type drone showed up here earlier this evening to collect it. I didn't talk to him. In fact, I didn't know he was here until the husband came back in and told me about. Which is too bad, because I had a few questions of my own:

1. Isn't this was the census I filled out was for (I got the short form. Which is good, because I wouldn't have filled out the long form.The short form is reasonable, so I filled it out and turned it in. )? That's how they explain what the census info is for, right? So they know where to fund projects such as these?

2. How is my ethnicity relevant? If I am the wrong ethnicity, do we not get our sidewalk? What ethnicity qualifies for a free sidewalk, exactly? We're a bit of a mix on our street, if I'm the wrong ethnicity, is the sidewalk going to stop in front of my house and pick up when the next house comes up with the proper DNA living in it? My husband is tri racial, does that mean they'll partially pave it or use a shittier grade concrete in front of my place than in front of houses with the proper ethnicity they're looking for? Or maybe they'll make it one or two thirds narrower in front of my place?

The husband just kindly told the worker (who was very nice) that the questions were too intrusive, we'd already filled out our census form from when they did that, and so we weren't going to turn the survey back in. The worker told him that we were something like the forth house on our side of the street that had declined. I should mention my street is a cul de sac and is not that long. Four is a pretty good number of declines. And the guy wasn't half done.

So I guess I"m just sort of flabbergasted at the perceived need to send out something like this. I mean, I keep coming back to the whole census thing. These surveys are not cheap to do. Why are they doing this when they just took an official census not long ago?

[Panacea]

The Census Department does all kinds of surveys all the time.

The short form we did in 2010 was for redistricting purposes.

Are you sure these survey takers were the US Census and not a local agency?

[RecoveringKinkoid]

It was not the US Census. It was the Town of Where Kink Lives. What it says at teh top of the survey form is "Kinkoid's County Community Development Block Grant Program Project Survey."

However, when you ask "Why do we need to fill out the census?" the answer you get is "So we know where to put money into communities and whatnot" (to paraphrase).

So it seems to me that this is the exact sort of thing they're talking about when they tell us why the census is important.

[Kheldarson]

The census is used for figuring out representatives more often than not. So yes, it's for money, but it's money that you get by having more representatives than other states.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Well, be that as it may, nobody needs to know what our income is and I find it straight up offensive that someone is making a decision to improve our street or not depending on what ethnicity the people living here are.

Aaaand with the thing on my desk here, I just noticed that there's a "female head of household" box, too. Okay, so how's that work? I only qualify to have a sidewalk if my junk is shaped a certain way?

There's so much wrong with this I don't even know where to start.

[Kheldarson]

The female head of house is probably just their misguided attempt to be more open to changing dynamics...damn, that still sounds bad.

Anyway, if it offends, ignore it and go to the city council meeting and tell them why it offends. Who knows? Maybe they'll fix it and improve your street too.

[Rapscallion]

All it needs is a trustworthy official looking at a street and ticking one of two boxes - 'needs repair' or 'will last a bit longer'.

Rapscallion

[Panacea]

This all sounds to me like collecting demographic information for other purposes.

Is this survey being administered by the local government or a private contractor?

if the latter, I suspect they are using the upcoming work as an excuse to collect information they do not need for the purposes of selling to a data mining firm.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Well, supposedly it's the "City of Blah Blah", the small burb I live in collecting it, but you never know.

They haven't been back since and I don't know what they've decided to do. I wish I knew how many more of my neighbors refused to fill it out.

Probably find out in the coming weeks as I run into people more. Been so busy with all my October traveling I'm a bit behind on neighborhood news right now.

Raps, you're right, a short stroll down my street with a clipboard and pen should be sufficient.

I looked at the official Census site and right there in plain view, one of the reasons for "why it's important" is for the funding of public works. So yeah, this is the very thing the census is used for. So I tend to think all this info was for the purposes Panacea suggests.

I brought this up to my Mom. She filled out the short form census when it went around, turned it in, and had no fewer than three visits from the Goon Squad wanting to make sure she turned it in. Even though she had. One time, they wanted her to turn it in AGAIN. She told them to get bent.

Then they showed up a forth time to ask if her neighbor's were home. I guess it didn't occur to them to go over there and see. So I guess the lesson is "don't fill it out, get harassed. Fill it out, get harassed anyways. "

Yep. Our tax dollars at work, right there. But I digress.

[Sleepwalker]

You do realize that your local town and the federal government are two different entities, no? And that the federal census, the one required by law, is for political districting, not for repair of a specific sidewalk? And that ethnic status is often recorded to make sure they AREN'T discriminating against one group?

Nah, I'm just being silly. Of course it is just so they can sell your vital income info to Burger Hut.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Yes, I do realize that. However, go look at the official census site. I'm not the one saying the federal census is what is used to decide what local public works get done. The census people are making that claim. It says as much on the official census site.

And if they are asking for what ethnicity someone is so they can make a decision based on that, be it for or against that ethnicity, it's STILL discrimination based on ethnicity. You can't discriminate in favor of any group without discriminating AGAINST some other group. It's not possible. That's what favoritism is. You can call it favoring one group instead of discriminating against another, but there's no way to have one without the other.

I'm not worried about getting junk mail from Burger Hut. What I'm worried about is the fact that this government, as well as governments of other countries, have used census info and ethnicity to "discriminate" against people of various ethnic groups. And when I say "discriminate", what I'm really saying is "rounding up for removal, interment, deportation, and in one particularly noteworthy case, straight up genocide.

Actually, there's more than once case of that, but you get what I'm saying.

I'm not saying I think the Gestapo is waiting to break down my door and haul my swarthy fortunetelling ass out to some death camp the moment I drop my survey into my little green mailbox. However, I'm not so naive as to be completely trusting of what my government might think is a good use of my info, either.

Not only that, but nobody needs to know what our income is, either. That's not anyone's business. The tax office knows what we make, and that's all who needs to know.

[Sleepwalker]

/facepalm.

Ethnicity X makes up 12% of population, gets 12% of funding. Oh, look, since we recorded the ethnic makeup of funding recipients, we now have evidence that county Y isn't discriminating against ethnicity X.

The federal census determines the allocation of FEDERAL FUNDS. Those can be used for fixing sidewalks, sure, but in this case it is your LOCAL GOVERNMENT looking at fixing that sidewalk.

It is like bitching about the food pantry wanting your name and address when the food stamp people already know all that shit.

As for bitching about a local census when you already participated in a federal one, shit, really? You are worried your podunk town is going to start a pogrom, but comply with the federal government instead? Mmk.

Shit. If you don't want to answer, don't answer. Clearly you won't do a census unless forced to by law. Don't bitch about how you already filled out a survey, though. You're like the people who froth at the mouth for five minutes about how they tithe to their church when asked if they want to contribute to the March of Dimes. If you don't want to participate in your local government allocation of funds, don't!

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Okay. You're right, the us census and the community survey are in fact two entirely different entities, and the fact that I"m bring up the census is kind of muddying up my point. These are actually two different conversations we're having.

However, I wouldn't be bringing it up if not for this, taken directly from the official us census website:

In fact, the information the census collects helps to determine how more than $400 billion dollars of federal funding each year is spent on infrastructure and services like:

* Hospitals
* Job training centers
* Schools
* Senior centers
* Bridges, tunnels and other-public works projects
* Emergency service

If this is a true statement, then the community survey is not really about the local gov knowing where to put a sidewalk. If this is a true statement, then the local government is lying about what they are doing with this information.

If this is a false statement, well, I submit Exibit A about why you can't trust the federal government to be up front about what they plan to do with info they've collected about their population. And I will tell you right now I'm not in the least surprised to be lied to by them.

I am not one of these people who refuse to fill out the census. I've always filled it out and mailed it back without any trouble. The federal gov needs to know how many we are as a population, and where we're living. That is reasonable, constitutional, and legal. However, I've never gotten the long form. The questions I've been asked were reasonable questions. If they ever send me the very invasive long form, that will be a different situation entirely, though.

Okay, so, back to the community survey. Either they are telling the truth about why they need that info or they are not.

If they're telling the truth, I'm not participating in discrimination. In your example about the twelve percent minority, discrimination is a willful thing. You can't check someone's color and then go "oopsie! I didn't mean to accidentally discriminate about people based on their ethnicity!" The only way to be color blind about this is to...well, be color blind about this. The only way to be completely unbiased is to NOT ASK WHAT COLOR FOLKS ARE. If you don't know, you can't discriminate, either accidentally or on purpose.

A quick drive down my street will tell someone all the relevant info anyone needs to know about our need for a sidewalk. We aren't millionaires, nor are we living in cardboard boxes, and our properties reflect this. Our homes and our cars and our toys are lying around in plain view. Clearly, we are paying taxes, and the town knows we actually have improved our street out of our own pockets on occasion (had it paved, street lights, etc.) So they know what's going on with our tax money and how much we are paying. As for property value, well, that's a matter of public record. I can find out that information on any neighborhood with a quick google search.

They don't need to know my racial makeup or sex. It's irrelevant, and I'd like to keep it that way. The minute the color bar comes into play on a form, that's clear evidence of someone planning on MAKING it relevant. I'm not participating in that as I find it offensive and wrong.

[Andara Bledin]

Actually, not really.

If you check the part you quoted it mentions "federal funding" which has jack all to do with what your local government is doing.

But you are right about the demographics information. It's unnecessary for what they currently plan to do.

^-.-^

[Sleepwalker]

/sigh.

Ain't explaining it again. Go take a civics class if you still cannot understand the difference between the federal government allocating funds, and your town allocating funds.