Social healthcare?

[Greenday]

What if you can't afford?

Then it sucks to be me. I still don't expect other people to pick up the tab for me.

[Rapscallion]

Economic Darwinism at its finest. "Those people have conspired to change the rules of the money pyramid to end up at the top, and if they have all the shiny coins then that's perfectly fair."

My fellow Americans, my arse.

Rapscallion

[Greenday]

Economic Darwinism at its finest. "Those people have conspired to change the rules of the money pyramid to end up at the top, and if they have all the shiny coins then that's perfectly fair."

My fellow Americans, my arse.

Rapscallion

It's like, we are taught all our lives that to be successful, making a lot of money is part of that. Then when you achieve that, you start being told, "Great job! Now fork it over so others can have it."

[the_std]

You know, I wouldn't give a shit if you wanted to hold on to that idea. If you want to pay all of your own bills and be responsible for everything that ever happens to you, that's fine. Except that people like you are determining the future for the millions of people in your country who absolutely cannot afford to do the same thing for themselves!

Let me ask you this, Greenday... If those people cannot afford healthcare, what should they do?

[kamn]

According to what the rate would be for one person my age, it'd be around $150 a month total. Which is still fairly less than 10% for me.

OK, the following is based that you are from America.

Considering you make just a bit under double of my country at the national level, reverse math means we'd pay about 75 here. We pay more on average. If you account for all the tycoons around here, we pay more than 150 on average. How in the world do you have ALL healthcare benefits with that low a premium? Or is that just basic "see doc, get pills" stuff? Does it cover ER? Hospitalisation? Medical aids, if you need them? And would you recommend your company's insurance company to anyone else?


IdrinkaRum:
From what I understand of the english system, the being unable to see a chosen doc might be true. Raps, can you explain? Over here though, there is a constitutional right, to see the healthcare worker of your choosing. Be prepared for lines though, the better someone is, the more desired they are.

[Rapscallion]

I don't think there's anyone who particularly minds people who have earned their money themselves and honourably.

I happen to believe there's an onus on people to earn their way.

By the same token, I realise and accept that there are people who cannot do the same. I know that I'm not the only person in the community. I'm not talking about the bone idle or willfully unemployed. I'm talking about those who can only hold down jobs that are not going to pay enough to afford health care under the US system. Those jobs are necessary, otherwise they wouldn't exist.

The alternative? Don't get ill, but if you do then die quickly as per ... Alan Grayson was it? Of course, we could increase the minimum wage to allow people to afford it, but that wouldn't keep those uppity lower classes down, would it?

Rapscallion

[Rapscallion]

IdrinkaRum:
From what I understand of the english system, the being unable to see a chosen doc might be true. Raps, can you explain? Over here though, there is a constitutional right, to see the healthcare worker of your choosing. Be prepared for lines though, the better someone is, the more desired they are.

Well, you usually register with one doctor at a practice, but you can see other doctors at that same practice instead of your own if the waiting time is too long, or if you want a second opinion. I have to admit that I rarely see my doctor as I've been of fairly good health for four decades, and it took two years of my sinuses getting steadily worse for me to broach the matter and get some antibiotics.

"How are you today?"

"Fighting human entropy, as always."

He rather liked that greeting. Decent bloke.

Doctors are usually there for minor gear, though. Most serious things get passed on to the hospital system for specialists (usually called 'consultant'). I was suspected of having cancer in the tubing, and they take that gratifyingly seriously. When they ruled that out, it went a bit slower, but they persisted until they worked out what the cause was. (Turned out the specialist I saw only got to diagnose the condition twice a year on average - fairly harmless in the scheme of things).

Since the UK system is under one umbrella, you do have to register with one GP (general practitioner - frontline doctor). I'm taking a repeat prescription powder as a result of my minor difficulty, and the funding for that comes out of the budget his practice gets (based on a per-patient basis). You can move from one practice to another if you have good reason, or sometimes you have to if you move too far outside their catchment area.

Generally speaking, my experience and that of others is that most GPs are good enough for the sort of things they deal with. I could ask to be moved to a different doctor in the same practice, I suppose, but I rather like this bloke. Knows his stuff.

Rapscallion

[Greenday]

If those people cannot afford healthcare, what should they do?

And that's the crux of the problem, isn't it? Clearly, no one should be denied the healthcare they need, but healthcare isn't free, regardless of what kind of healthcare system you have, thus someone has to pay for it.

OK, the following is based that you are from America.

Considering you make just a bit under double of my country at the national level, reverse math means we'd pay about 75 here. We pay more on average. If you account for all the tycoons around here, we pay more than 150 on average. How in the world do you have ALL healthcare benefits with that low a premium? Or is that just basic "see doc, get pills" stuff? Does it cover ER? Hospitalisation? Medical aids, if you need them? And would you recommend your company's insurance company to anyone else?

I'd have to look at what the coverage is, but from what I remember, it's not a bad deal. My dental insurance kinda sucks. They pay for one dentist visit a year, but they don't cover my favorite dentist who is amazing and they said my dental insurance isn't great. I don't exactly use my health insurance because while over here, the military covers that stuff (I'll tell you, the nursing staff at the military hospital were amazing when I had to stay there a few days. Great care they provided.)

I have BCBS btw.

[the_std]

Healthcare is not free, no. But why can't we help the people who can't afford it? If you're comfortable, why not help the people who would not be able to survive if a medical problem came along? I know it's your money, but I do have to ask - is it more important to have a new flat screen, or to help people avoid bankruptcy due to medical conditions?

[Greenday]

Healthcare is not free, no. But why can't we help the people who can't afford it? If you're comfortable, why not help the people who would not be able to survive if a medical problem came along? I know it's your money, but I do have to ask - is it more important to have a new flat screen, or to help people avoid bankruptcy due to medical conditions?

Because I'm comfortable in the present. I don't know what the future holds. I do know somethings like I'm going to need a place to stay. I'm going to need a car to drive if I want a job. I'm going to have bills to play once I get back to the states. I'm going to need to eat. Etc. etc. So it makes more sense to save money now so that when the time comes that my expenses greatly rise, I won't be stuck looking for handouts. I can't build up self-sufficiency if I give away money just because I'm not using it now.

[kamn]

You are in the military right now? That would explain it a bit. We have something similar, the military picking up the advanced medical insurance check. Sorry to hear about your dental though and sorry to hear you had enough trouble to need the fine hospital care. You might want to consider that you'd have unlimited dental here (advanced healthcare for any hospitalisation lasting more than 3 days though). But yeah, nice catch!

But, I have to ask. Do you have any poor friends? Your attitude and your signature make me feel you think most, if not all of the poor people are poor because they are too lazy to do anything about it. I mean no offense, but have you considered that sometimes, there is only so much someone can do? That sometimes it really IS that hard to get out of poverty? At least without breaking moral and legal laws? No real need to answer, just a thought for you.

[Greenday]

You are in the military right now? That would explain it a bit. We have something similar, the military picking up the advanced medical insurance check. Sorry to hear about your dental though and sorry to hear you had enough trouble to need the fine hospital care. You might want to consider that you'd have unlimited dental here (advanced healthcare for any hospitalisation lasting more than 3 days though). But yeah, nice catch!

But, I have to ask. Do you have any poor friends? Your attitude and your signature make me feel you think most, if not all of the poor people are poor because they are too lazy to do anything about it. I mean no offense, but have you considered that sometimes, there is only so much someone can do? That sometimes it really IS that hard to get out of poverty? At least without breaking moral and legal laws? No real need to answer, just a thought for you.

I'm not in the military. I'm a civilian doing work for the military. But the way it works is, if you get sick, you get taken care of and that's that. When I asked about billing, the soldiers laughed at me, handed me my discharge form which had my diagnosis for my company's records, and sent me on my way. We're here on a mission and we can't do that mission if people get sick and have to deal with financial issues preventing them from getting better. You say it's unlimited dental, but the dentists and their assistants and other workers at the office have to get paid. They get paid by the government. Who pays the government? You do, with your taxes. So even if you choose doctors who don't bill as much to the government, you are still paying for the more expensive ones with your taxes (I'm assuming doctors aren't all paid the exact same amount).

Depends on how you define "poverty". If your definition means living on the streets, then no. If your definition means not being able to pay the bills, then a most definite yes. One of my aunts always has trouble paying bills and constantly has to skip some. Another has tons of expenses with her two young kids. Most of my life, living with my mom (who was a single mother since I was 6), we couldn't always afford the bills. Tons of credit card debt. Things are better now, but sometimes she and my stepdad still have trouble. As a kid and teenager, I refused to ever take money from my mom. I knew we didn't have much and if I didn't actually need something and didn't have the money myself, I didn't buy it. I am good about spending my money and even today, now that my student loans are paid off and I'm debt free, I spend very little money on unnecessary items.

I worked my ass off to get to where I am today. I had an A average in high school. I took out loans for college, worked myself into exhaustion to pass my classes for my major and my minor. I applied for every single job that was even slightly relevant to my major whether it was something I wanted to do or not. I took a risky opportunity for employment and it's paid off (so far). Don't punish me because I was able to pull off the American Dream.

[IDrinkaRum]

Kamn - even here, even if you have health insurance, certain specialists have long waiting lists.

Take the Developmental Pediatrician I take my daughter to. We saw this particular doctor on October 26. I made an appointment to see her back in March of 2011. At the appointment, she wanted to do a follow up in January. In reality, I got an appointment in February. She's a highly requested doctor. And Children's National Medical Center is one of the few specialists in the area that actually take insurance. Other specialists do not accept insurance and can ask for at least $250 per visit. (And there are people out there who will pay that, so there will not be any unemployed doctors out there).

However, I do have the option, starting January 1 (or whatever day they are open again for appointments) to call and see if I can get her in sooner. I just have to call every day. (I've been told by the appointment setters that some parents call every hour the appointment line is open).

The insurance we have comes through husband's job as I am a SAHM. (Stay-At-Home-Mom for those playing at home). He gets it through the government as he's a Federal Employee. We have a main doctor (though he's so busy I have been seeing his Physician Assistant). Then there's the specialists he has recommended. There's my cardiologist, my pulminologist, and my endocrinologist. They are associated with various hospitals in the area. However, they have their own private practices. As I said in my previous post, it's $20 co-pay for my main doc and $30 for the specialist (plus whatever the insurance doesn't pick up). ER visits are mainly covered, but sometimes I have to pay for basically administrative costs. And at daughter's regular pediatrician, I had to pay for the nebulizer treatment she had in the office.

But this is only what happens with us. I can't talk about the others who have the same insurance coverage as I do. And I'm not sure how much per paycheck we pay to be covered.

[Andara Bledin]

Greenday: So... You'll need money in the future, so now you're going to make sure that there's no safety net for you should your health decline during a period where you find yourself without insurance?

You obviously have not thought this through very well at all.

^-.-^

[the_std]

I really have to ask... Why don't you think a system that works for the gigantic majority for the rest of the first world wouldn't work for the states? And please don't say that the government would fuck it up. They run a respectable and large amount of social systems throughout the rest of the government. What truly makes you think a proven system isn't applicable to your country?