Social healthcare?

[Andara Bledin]

I don't get why anyone who grew up poor, whose mother couldn't even really make ends meet, wants her to not be able to afford the doctor when she gets sick.

That's just disturbing in a sociopathic way.

^-.-^

[AdminAssistant]

Also, what about people who do all the right things and still get screwed? I also worked hard, got good grades, worked when possible, etc. I have health insurance. (GTAs get minimal coverage at a very low price, but only because we're unionized. We traded low-cost insurance for a raise, basically.)

And yet, when I went to the ER for abdominal pain, the radiologist noticed some spots on my liver. It turns out that they're benign adenomas that resulted from long-term use of oral contraceptives (that I took so I wouldn't get pregnant and become a burden to the state). However, the process of determining that they were benign adenomas instead of malignant tumors cost me well over $1500. There's no telling what it would have cost if the GI specialist had insisted on a biopsy (had they been any bigger, he would have). That alone could have driven me into bankruptcy through no damn fault of my own. But apparently that's what I deserve.

[protege]

And please don't say that the government would fuck it up. They run a respectable and large amount of social systems throughout the rest of the government. What truly makes you think a proven system isn't applicable to your country?

Because some of us have experienced it before. When my dad was out of work, my mother was able to get health insurance through the county...because she worked for the health department. Too many forms to fill out, stupid referrals (you couldn't simply go to a specialist...you had to get "referred" by your primary physician), delays because of the paperwork. Instead, I have my own insurance, which I pay a portion, and so does my employer. When I get sick, I go to whomever I want, and only pay the $5 copay fee, and possibly the $10 fee for prescriptions. I've done the government thing before, and it sucks. I don't want to do it again.

[the_std]

Except that the way your government does healthcare now is broken. And do you know why? Trying to pander to both the Democrats and the stonewalling Republicans. What they've got now is the only thing they've managed to put through, because no one wants to move ahead. Don't blame the governing body of the healthcare system, blame your talking head politicians - they're the ones who refuse to let a working system through!

What you guys need is a new system, a system modeled after the Canadian/British/Swedish systems. It's more efficient and it works for everyone, not just the people who can afford to pay for their healthcare out of pocket. It's not perfect, but nothing run by humans is perfect, and at least with our system, you'd be able to keep so many hundreds of thousands of people out of crippling debt due to their health.

[bara]

There is no reason for the US to not have universal healthcare. At least no logical one. Its a stigma. To many people think its 'commie bullshit'.

Instead of funneling shit tons of money to go over to and involve ourselves in other countries that dont want our help, we could easily funnel this money into helping each other out. But god forbid we actually do that.

I bust my ass and have nothing but scars and probably a future knee replacement ot two for my trouble. I busted my ass at school, I busted my ass at work. Didnt matter. Couldnt finish school because I had to many bills to pay. If I dont have a car I cant to school. If I cant see my books I cant study.
Last three jobs Ive had, could have made some decent money. But I would have had to lie, cheat. and stab people in the back to do it. To bad I have to look in the mirror to shave otherwise I might have made it a go. And none of those had decent health insurance. One of them increased the cost of insurance whle lowering the benefits received.
You had to pay something to the tune of 7000 dollars for an emergency room visit. one person unmarried and no kids would have to pay 300 a month for these great services. When you are only grossing 17,000 a year that comes to a little over 20% of your total income. And thats more than minumum wage at 160 hours a month.

[Gravekeeper]

Simple answer: Because Americans by and large don't actually understand what socialism or universal health care is. As is painfully evidenced by this thread. Combine that with an unsettling trend where many of them would rather watch you die than give up a dollar to let you live and you get the mess they're currently in. There's a reason many Americans buy prescription drugs from Canada. Yet those same many can't connect the dots to figure out why its so much cheaper. -.-

Up here in Canuckistan, if I get hurt or sick, the only thing I have to worry about is getting better. On top of my universal healthcare, I have life insurance and health insurance through work as well that covers non-critical things like glasses, dental, massage therapy, acupuncture ( Yep, even acupuncture ), etc. I also have a pension and unemployment insurance of course.

What staggering income tax rate do I pay for this dastardly socialism? That's a good question! Let me check my T3 for last year. Let's see....

9.2% -.-

[IDrinkaRum]

I really have to ask... Why don't you think a system that works for the gigantic majority for the rest of the first world wouldn't work for the states? And please don't say that the government would fuck it up. They run a respectable and large amount of social systems throughout the rest of the government. What truly makes you think a proven system isn't applicable to your country?

We have read in days (months, years) past about how effed up the welfare system is. Run by the government.

We're in a crisis with the Social Security System. There is little to no money left to pay all those who are wanting to access it. Again, run by the government.

Medicare is being shafted and has been for a while. Run by the government.

Those are 3 "social systems" that are run by the government that are being run into the ground by the government.

And you seriously believe a healthcare system run by the government is going to run smoothly and happily?

Excuse me while I

[drunkenwildmage]

I really have to ask... Why don't you think a system that works for the gigantic majority for the rest of the first world wouldn't work for the states? And please don't say that the government would fuck it up. They run a respectable and large amount of social systems throughout the rest of the government. What truly makes you think a proven system isn't applicable to your country?

In the US, there is a distrust of government and the Citizens.. The Country was founded with that mindset, and The US Constitution was written with the idea to limit Governmental powers. For many groups, Government controlled Health care is viewed as a power grab for the US Government, another way to control our everyday lives and a volition of the US Constitution. The reason the recently passed healthcare law is at the Supreme court, is because of the provisions that forces everyone to buy healthcare.

Also, The governmental agencies in the US (Federal, state, or local) are notorious for being inefficient and slow.

[Andara Bledin]

We're in a crisis with the Social Security System. There is little to no money left to pay all those who are wanting to access it. Again, run by the government.

The social security system was fine and self-sustaining until the government fucked with it. It's a manufactured crisis that I wouldn't be surprised to find out was partly meant to foster distrust of government-run programs. Of course, the main goal of fucking with it was to get rid of it entirely because those with the money either don't need it, or don't even pay into it. After all, it's the bottom half of the food chain that gets hit hardest if it goes away.

Plus, the idea in the US is for a hybrid system. Can't afford insurance? Then you can opt for the social system. Can afford it? Then buy yourself whatever premium option you can get yourself.

This isn't some all or nothing, "OMG! Obamacare is going to take away my top-tier plan and force me to take the same insurance as the plebes!" proposition.

^-.-^

[IDrinkaRum]

I'm not saying it is. However, there is already a socialized healthcare system in place. Fix that. Not create something completely new, especially when there are a lot of people (and not just the "1%") who are opposing it.

And social security didn't get introduced until the 1930s with the Great Depression and FDR. What did people do before that? Are we saying before the Great Depression everyone was independently wealthy and there were no poor?

And again, it's been admitted the government screwed up Social Security. And you're willing to put your health and your health care into the hands of people who are all (Democrats AND Republicans) controlled by the 1%?

[AdminAssistant]

And social security didn't get introduced until the 1930s with the Great Depression and FDR. What did people do before that?

They died. I mean, you've read The Grapes of Wrath, right? It also didn't hurt that the average life expectancy was a lot lower.

[Andara Bledin]

There is a social healthcare system in place for only the bottom, what, 5% of the country's population? How is "fixing" something that was only designed to cover a small portion of the populace supposed to help the 80% of the country that makes enough money to not qualify but not enough for it to stop being an issue?

As for before social security: people died of starvation a lot more often.

And, honestly, how can a "screwed up but available" thing be worse than nothing?

What the fuck is up with the, "Oh, well, they won't do it right, so we're going to just sit here and block any progress at all until we have a group in power that can make it perfect."

^-.-^

[IDrinkaRum]

Medicare is in place. We rework it. We make it better. We make it available to more than just the bottom 5%. BTW, my father is not in the bottom 5%, but starting in January, he's getting Medicare and will have to look for a new Primary Care Physician as the one our entire family sees doesn't take Medicare.

Everyone has been whining about social systems the government has been running. Like Social Security. Like Medicare. Like a bunch of other things. And yet, we're still going to go along with another government run program because this time they're going to get it right? Excuse me while I don't believe.

[the_std]

And social security didn't get introduced until the 1930s with the Great Depression and FDR. What did people do before that? Are we saying before the Great Depression everyone was independently wealthy and there were no poor?

Okay, I told myself I was now going to stay out of this debate because I just cannot understand the mindset you're presenting, as it seems we're using the same words for different things, but I have to comment on this.

What the hell does it matter what people did before the 30s and FDR? Are you bringing it up to show that people were okay in the early 1900s? Almost a full century ago? Who cares? We are in a completely different economic climate, insanely different population mixes, and even if you could compare the problems faced back then to the problems people face now, the answers that fixed people back then would be inapplicable to people today. Things tend to change in ninety freaking years.

[Greenday]

I think that IDR is pointing out that we have people are acting like America is doomed without social healthcare.

Did more people die back then because they didn't have free money when they retired? I don't know. It'd be kind of hard to prove because there are so many other variables involved (or just the fact that medical technology has drastically increased such then).

It's like people think we can't survive without social healthcare, yet people have for a long time.