Salvation Army Anti Gay = Common Knowledge?

[the_std]

So...my giving maybe, at most, a dollar, over the course of a Christmas season, over maybe 6 buckets, for the express purpose of giving holiday cheer to the guy or gal, or kids in one case, who's sitting there in the cold collecting money is a bad thing simply because the group they're with happens to, among other things, support anti-gay legislation. Sounds like beautiful reasoning to me.

Uhm... Yes? It is a bad thing because it SUPPORTS ANTI-GAY LEGISLATION. Is "Christmas cheer" more important than the rights of gay people?

[Kheldarson]

Hm...the smile I get as I do something nice or the meh I get thinking about legislation that the federal government shouldn't be involved with in the first place? I think I'll go with the former thanks.

I'd rather do something rather inconsequentially nice for the people in front of me than be a stick in the mud for the sake of people who I don't even know.

And for someone who said he didn't like making assumptions, you're making a pretty big one about my politics and ethics. Just sayin'.

[the_std]

Hm...the smile I get as I do something nice or the meh I get thinking about legislation that the federal government shouldn't be involved with in the first place? I think I'll go with the former thanks.

So instant gratification over supporting an organization that doesn't hide the fact that they're discriminatory?

I'd rather do something rather inconsequentially nice for the people in front of me than be a stick in the mud for the sake of people who I don't even know.

But this is what I'm trying to point out - it's NOT inconsequential! You are giving money to people who use that money to only support people who aren't gay, and this being a charity organization, I don't believe that people who are in need of such support should be discriminated against simply because they're attracted to people of the same sex as them.

And for someone who said he didn't like making assumptions, you're making a pretty big one about my politics and ethics. Just sayin'.

I didn't assume anything. You'll notice it was a question. You prefer giving Christmas cheer over supporting gay rights?

(Side note, I am also a woman, not a he.)

[AdminAssistant]

Edited: STD summed it up better than I did.

As far as locations go, if you have a working internet connection, that's no excuse. Gather up loose change, deposit it in the bank, and make a donation in that amount to an organization that actually helps people, as opposed to organizations that support hateful legislation or that spend money evangelizing as opposed to doing good.

[Kheldarson]

So instant gratification over supporting an organization that doesn't hide the fact that they're discriminatory?

I think I just said that. I'd rather give to the person in front of me or my church. Or the Scouts. These are the things I support.

But this is what I'm trying to point out - it's NOT inconsequential! You are giving money to people who use that money to only support people who aren't gay, and this being a charity organization, I don't believe that people who are in need of such support should be discriminated against simply because they're attracted to people of the same sex as them.

And private groups don't have a right to refuse service? I may think that's a shitty reason, but that's still their right.

I didn't assume anything. You'll notice it was a question. You prefer giving Christmas cheer over supporting gay rights?

Yes. At the tune of a dollar, yes.

[Andara Bledin]

Apparently, the Salvation Army's official position is that it does not discriminate about who it gives charity to based on sexual orientation. It seems that when it happens, it's done as a decision at a local level and is not supported higher up.

However, they do actively campaign to not be required to provide benefits to the same-sex domestic partners of their employees and to not be required to hire sexually active gay ministers. The latter should absolutely be their right - the former, not so much.

It's interesting to note that their stance isn't that being gay is bad, but being sexually active in a non-heterosexual manner is.

The drive to boycott has been going on for over a decade, now, but it doesn't appear to be getting much traction.

^-.-^

[the_std]

Well then, Kheldarson, I will say that I heavily, heavily disagree with your actions, as there are a lot of people like you out there who will just drop change in the buckets, and that change adds up quickly. I do not support this because it ends up being a lot more than a drop in the bucket - it is a large source of funding for an organization that I think goes against the very premise of charity. But if you are okay with that, then I guess there isn't much more for us to talk about here.

[Jetfire]

The boycott drive may not be gaining traction; but modern purchasing certainly has been. In recent years I've been hearing more and more how the bucket drives aren't pulling in the money they used to, because people aren't paying with cash any more. The Salvation Army has been researching and trying to figure out other methods to encourage donations (cell phone donations for example) but nothing's really offset the dropping in of a few dollars that they used to have.

Personally, I hadn't heard of their stance, but now that I have, I'll be even less inclined to support them. (being a strong debit card user to begin with; I've almost never tossed any money in their buckets anyways; and my used item donations go to Value Village now, and have been for awhile; mainly because they're more well known).

[AdminAssistant]

Or the Scouts

The Boy Scouts is another horrifically anti-gay rights organization, that will kick out children who identify as homosexual, trans, or even as atheists.

Unless you're referring to the Girl Scouts, which is completely separate and has no such track record of discrimination.

[Kheldarson]

Actually both. I'm both a Boy Scout and a Girl Scout and proud of both, although the Boy Scouts are far more effective in terms of teaching things with their merit badges compared to the Girl Scouts.

[Andara Bledin]

The boycott drive may not be gaining traction; but modern purchasing certainly has been.

Well, the physical kettle drives may be having trouble, but their collection broke records for the 6th straight year as of last year, so they're not really being affected. They have "virtual kettles" where people making purchases online can donate.

Considering that the Salvation Army is structured like a military group, and that the official policy is that they do not discriminate in their philanthropic endeavors based on sexual orientation, I would suggest to any that are victims of such discrimination to kick complaints up the chain of command, just as you would do with someone in any other armed service who is not acting according to protocol.

Because, honestly, there aren't enough people in the world who care enough about the boycott for it to have any tangible effect. Hell, it's been going on for over a decade and most people have never even heard of it.

^-.-^

[Bardmaiden]

I didn't know the Salvation Army was anti gay.

Thing is I kinda like them, not in church going way but because they were the only church to accept my aunt. You see my grandmother had three children one adopted, one my grandfather looked after even though it wasn't his child and born out of wedlock (this was the 1940's not so accepted then) then my mother. At the age of two my aunt caught menigitis and it affected her very badly she became mentally the age of two year old for the rest of her life. Her mother wished for her to be baptised and the Sally Army were the only ones that would perform the service as the rest of the churches said she wouldn't understand the importance of it so they wouldn't do it...hang on a minute I was baptised when I was about a year old I didn't know about churches then.

So TL;DR version I like them for family reasons but not their anti gay stuff.

[Andara Bledin]

A Minor Correction: The Salvation Army is not specifically anti-gay. They are anti-sexually-active-gay. Their stance is that if you are not heterosexual, then you should practice celibacy.

It's not much better, really, but there is a difference.

^-.-^

[HYHYBT]

What they use the donations for matters as well. If they indeed do not discriminate in how they hand out what they collect, then to me how they choose to structure themselves, and even who they hire (they are, after all, a church) is, to me, their business. I'm pretty sure they stay out of politics except to insist that they continue being allowed to do as they wish, unlike many other churches who are far more anti-gay to begin with.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Apparently, the Salvation Army's official position is that it does not discriminate about who it gives charity to based on sexual orientation.

^-.-^

I'm not saying this is a true statement, because I don't know. But I've read a few claims that they do. I have no way of knowing if it's true or something someone make up to further demonize the SA. People indeed do that. But there ya go, it is what it is.