Salvation Army Anti Gay = Common Knowledge?

[blas87]

If giving a few bucks a year to SA just cuz it's "nice" to do, is the same as me signing up to donate to the United Way, because it'd be "nice" to do. That's another organization that's full of crap and not a good charity.

[Andara Bledin]

I'm not saying this is a true statement, because I don't know. But I've read a few claims that they do.

From their own position page at SalvationArmy.org:

Homosexuality

The Salvation Army holds a positive view of human sexuality. Where a man and a woman love each other, sexual intimacy is understood as a gift of God to be enjoyed within the context of heterosexual marriage. However, in the Christian view, sexual intimacy is not essential to a healthy, full, and rich life. Apart from marriage, the scriptural standard is celibacy.

Sexual attraction to the same sex is a matter of profound complexity. Whatever the causes may be, attempts to deny its reality or to marginalize those of a same-sex orientation have not been helpful. The Salvation Army does not consider same-sex orientation blameworthy in itself. Homosexual conduct, like heterosexual conduct, requires individual responsibility and must be guided by the light of scriptural teaching.

Scripture forbids sexual intimacy between members of the same sex. The Salvation Army believes, therefore, that Christians whose sexual orientation is primarily or exclusively same-sex are called upon to embrace celibacy as a way of life. There is no scriptural support for same-sex unions as equal to, or as an alternative to, heterosexual marriage.

Likewise, there is no scriptural support for demeaning or mistreating anyone for reason of his or her sexual orientation. The Salvation Army opposes any such abuse.

In keeping with these convictions, the services of The Salvation Army are available to all who qualify, without regard to sexual orientation. The fellowship of Salvation Army worship is open to all sincere seekers of faith in Christ, and membership in The Salvation Army church body is open to all who confess Christ as Savior and who accept and abide by The Salvation Army's doctrine and discipline.

Scriptures: Genesis 2:23-24; Leviticus 18:22; Mark 2:16-17; Romans 1:26-27; Romans 5:8; I Corinthians 6:9-11; I Corinthians 13; Galatians 6:1-2; I Thessalonians 4:1-8; I Thessalonians 5:14-15; I Timothy 1:15-16; Jude 7

Recommended for approval by the Commissioners' Conference
Approved for use within the USA by International Headquarters

I'm taking it straight from the horse's mouth.

From an article last month in The New York Times:

In a statement sent by e-mail later, Mr. Hood, a Salvation Army spokesman, adds that “gay couples are to be treated in the same way we treat heterosexual couples.”

“Whether they are provided overnight lodging,” he says, “is determined solely on capacity and availability of beds.” Most beds in Salvation Army shelters are for men, but the Salvation Army has “been going through a transition of facilities over the past several years to expand bed space for women and also to isolate some private rooms for couples, whether they be homosexual or heterosexual.”

I don't actually have a horse in this fight as I am straight and don't know even a friend of a friend who has been denied charity by them, nor do I give them any money. I'm just interested in making sure that if people are going to "do the right thing," they don't do it based on lies, outdated information (the Times article is over an event that took place 20 years ago), or the false actions of those at the bottom acting without sanction or blessing from their superiors.

^-.-^

[Peppergirl]

Ok, so to throw a further monkey wrench into it:

What about Target and their anti-gay donation debacle from a couple years ago?

http://news.change.org/stories/targe...i-gay-politics


Did most of us stop shopping there? I bet not. I know I'm guilty of still going there.

[Andara Bledin]

An update from a month later at MPR News

An excerpt:

In a letter to Target employees, CEO Gregg Steinhafel wrote that the purpose of the $150,000 donation to MN Forward was to support economic growth and job creation, but he wrote that the contribution affected many employees in ways he did not anticipate and quote "for that I am deeply sorry."

Target spokeswoman Lena Michaud said the company will also do a strategic review of political donations and plans to lead a discussion on improving gay rights in the workplace.

"Our commitment right now is in letting people know that we've heard their feedback and we're really sorry that we've let them down," Michaud said. "We want to continue doing the many things that Target has done as a company to foster our inclusive corporate culture and then look at ways of doing things better in the future."

I have yet to run into a story about Target where they didn't act quickly and pro-actively to assure the public and their own employees that whatever bad thing was done was not on purpose and that they will move forward by no longer doing that thing and by reviewing the process that led to them doing that thing in the first place.

Either that or the story in question is a blown up load of rubbish. I have yet to find a compelling reason to not shop there, despite how often "boycott Target" campaigns roll around.

Also worth noting is that Minnesota Forward specifically supports politicians that are committed to supporting the business community, without consideration for their stances on other issues. They couldn't care less that Emmer and probably the other two Republicans they supported were anti-gay, and they also don't care that the three Democrats to whom they gave funds are probably pro-gay - It's not part of their agenda, and if one is going to raise a stink, it would be in their best interests to disclose that fact.

^-.-^

[blas87]

I only shopped at Target a year or two ago, because I was given a gift card for there from my employer. I should have thrown it away, I know, as earlier I was on my soapbox, but at least it was quite a while ago, and I don't even think about Target when I'm planning my shopping.

[Andara Bledin]

Honestly, compared to most of their contemporaries, Target is arguably the least evil among them. I can't see what they've done that would really cause anyone to soapbox against them. Unlike, say, the six other corporations who specifically jumped on board with Minnesota Forward after the whole "they give money to politicians who also happen to be anti-gay" thing.

^-.-^

[Peppergirl]

Thanks for the update, Andara. I clearly never kept up with Targets responses to the issue.

[smileyeagle1021]

So...my giving maybe, at most, a dollar, over the course of a Christmas season, over maybe 6 buckets, for the express purpose of giving holiday cheer to the guy or gal, or kids in one case, who's sitting there in the cold collecting money is a bad thing simply because the group they're with happens to, among other things, support anti-gay legislation. Sounds like beautiful reasoning to me.

When there is so many other charities to give to... yes.
A polite I've already donated does nothing against the people in the cold... in fact normally saying that makes their day when someone says it honestly (of course, there is the rub, you really should have made a donation to somewhere if you are going to say that).

I'd rather do something rather inconsequentially nice for the people in front of me than be a stick in the mud for the sake of people who I don't even know.

you don't know any gay people? You don't know a single gay person?
To be blunt, are you ignorant or living under a rock? Over 99% of counties in the United States (and I'd assume similar levels exist in other countries) have out gays or lesbians living there. So I find it hard to believe that anti-gay policies aren't going to affect anyone you know. On that same standard, if you don't care about people you know, why are you donating to a charity that could for all you know be sending money to help people in a different country, surely you don't know all the people in need of charitable help from organizations such as the Salvation Army.

Actually both. I'm both a Boy Scout and a Girl Scout and proud of both, although the Boy Scouts are far more effective in terms of teaching things with their merit badges compared to the Girl Scouts.

As an Eagle Scout, I have a hard time disagreeing with you, but as someone who has seen the organization from both inside and out, I can safely say, that there is nothing that amazing about BSA, the good that comes from it can easily come from other places, namely the child's parents. Involved parents were a much bigger influence in me getting my Eagle than the program itself, and that was consistent with everyone I met in the program was the same, those with involved parents excelled, those without didn't.
Are they a good program? Absolutely. But as a donor you have to decide whether the good they do outweighs the bad and if you want to send your money somewhere else, something I'd advise doing when there are other organizations that do just as well, if not better, that don't push a bigoted agenda (both religious intolerance and homophobia).

Ok, so to throw a further monkey wrench into it:

What about Target and their anti-gay donation debacle from a couple years ago?

http://news.change.org/stories/targe...i-gay-politics


Did most of us stop shopping there? I bet not. I know I'm guilty of still going there.

I stopped spending there because of it, but I'm not surprised that not many people changed their buying habits because of it.
Gays and Lesbians make up, under even optimistic assumptions less than 10% of the population, with realistic estimates at 5%, and as Kheldarson demonstrates, you don't have to be homophobic or bigoted to turn a blind eye because you don't think it affects anyone you know. You can even be an otherwise good person and just not know what the affects of your actions are.

[Kheldarson]

you don't know any gay people? You don't know a single gay person?
To be blunt, are you ignorant or living under a rock? Over 99% of counties in the United States (and I'd assume similar levels exist in other countries) have out gays or lesbians living there. So I find it hard to believe that anti-gay policies aren't going to affect anyone you know.

I actually have a gay friend that we discussed this thread with. And Kyle doesn't see the big deal with donating to them. So...yeah. Nobody I know is affected by this seemingly big deal of making a donation to a church group.

As to the rest, I'll just go ahead and put this out here. I am morally against extramarital relationships. This means any sexual union (gay or hetero) done outside a church marriage. That's a church matter that doesn't apply to everyone though and has no standing in the courts and cannot be affected by the courts. However, politically, I support civil unions for anybody. That's a tax issue and should be handled by law.

So, I'll support a church group that stands against extramarital relationships and will push to make sure lawmakers keep their laws away from the church. I also support groups that push for political civil unions who will ensure that all have equal rights.

[HYHYBT]

I only shopped at Target a year or two ago, because I was given a gift card for there from my employer. I should have thrown it away,

Why? A gift card means they owe you something. Throwing it away means they get to keep the money free, instead of providing goods for it.

As for not shopping at Target... it was one donation, in a case where they had conflicting interests and reasonably might not have known about one of them. Meanwhile, other than that, they've been pretty consistently friendly for ages, unlike (from what I've heard) their blue competitor. Punishing the good for not being perfect is a great way to wind up with only bad choices... and we all have to shop somewhere.

[blas87]

I still prefer Wal-Mart, because you never need coupons to shop there. Of course, the ones I do find (manufacturer's coupons) I can still use there.

Or I could just clip and print coupons for grocery stores and ShitKo and Target and drive all over town to save a few bucks.

[Andara Bledin]

I still prefer Wal-Mart, because you never need coupons to shop there.

So, you'd boycott Target for a one-off donation to a business-friendly politician that also happened to be anti-gay, but you have no problems shopping at Walmart, who supports specifically Catholic charities which are known to actively discriminate against the GLBT community, and whose CEO signed a petition to ban adoption for same-sex couples?

Article at Rainbow Sash Movement
Article at Know They Neighbor

Unlike Target, I have heard dozens of very good reasons to not shop at Walmart, all of which are supported by multiple news reports and legal documents.

^-.-^

[blas87]

That I can claim ignorance on.

I was fully aware of everyone's normal anti Wal-Mart propoganda and usual "Don't shop there! They don't pay their workers enough!" or "They don't provide good benefits!" or "They are screwing over small businesses!11!"

But I was not aware of that.

Damn. Almost out of options am I then.

[AdminAssistant]

While I try to avoid Wal-Mart, I don't judge people who shop there...particularly from my home state where there's a Supercenter in damn near every town. Often the prices are far, far cheaper than at the grocery stores, and not many SuperTargets have broken into the market yet.

[HYHYBT]

For food, I have these choices: 1) Walmart Supercenter.

2) Either of two regular grocery stores in town, both of which charge what seems like half again what WM does and one of which is owned by a very "conservative" Christian.

3) Convenience stores: cost more than the grocery stores, virtually no "real" food, and who knows what their corporate policies are.

4) Travel to a city for groceries, wasting gallons of gasoline per trip.

I usually go to Walmart. If there were an otherwise-comparable choice in town, I'd take it for WM's horrible restroom sinks alone, much less their policies.