Potential for american civil war?

[rahmota]

Ok I just got done reading Orson Scott Card's book Empire. About a civil war between the far right and far left in america resulting in a charismatic augustinian style president being elected.

How likely do you think it is that at some point all this BS between red and blue, rich and poor, far right and far left will result in a civil war or other violent upheavel?

I personally do feel that the potential is there. There is on both ends of the spectrum enough hate, insanity and intolerance to power something. And the people in the middle being shoved around might just get fed up enough and want someone to take charge and put an end to it. I mean look at how King Bush II got into power. Look at the history of how republics fall and empires rise. The only thign stopping it is that there is not enough of a cohesive force to this anger. It is there but just kinda free form and unfocused on a variety of distractions.

Before the Civil War people thought that the rule of law was so powerful that there would be no cause or reason for people to take arms and oppose it in America. This was shattered by the outrage over slavery.

Do we have any flashpoints equal to that? Not really. We have an aggregate of various issues such as Same gender Marriage, Worker's rights, among others. I would have to say though that there is no real direct equivalent to the slavery or civil rights degree of outrage though same gender issues are close.

So what do you think. especially those outside of the US as you no doubt get a different picture of how we do thigns than what we do in country.

[AFPheonix]

I think the center already staged an uprising last election. Is another civil war possible? Well, anything's possible, I don't think it would be likely any time soon. Personally, I think the Red Vs Blue thing is more of a media hype thing than anything else. We're a very purple country.

[rahmota]

Well AFP I'll agree that the potential for a violent or otherwise open civil war is not very high right now. The future is still unwriten so we'll just ahve to see.

As for the recent election yeah it was a bit of rebellion against the ccurrent administration and its backers. But the division is more than just media hype to me.

sure the media may be exaggerating thigns a bit but the gap betwen the haves and the have nots has widened, the country has been drifitng towards more polarized positions. And history shows that eventually all societies fall in one way or another.

A civil war can be sparked by an event or situation that is intolerable to enough people to take arms and drag everyone else into it. Or a charismatic leader gains sufficient power and support to drag a society into their "vision" of what the society should be.

So no right now America is not ripe for open civil war, it'll still be the same manipulation and cold civil war tripe we've been putting up with for a few more years. Then hopefuly this thrill ride will get straightened out, somehow. And lets hope its for the best for all.

[ds_36]

Yes and no...the potential for civil war is probably here. With so many people hating the current president and taking every possible opportunity to protest him and blame him for everything.
The problem is most of these people, or at least the younger generation who most likely do something, tend to be uninterested in actually doing anything to really make a change. Sure they'll scream about how the government sucks and we need a revolution, but they won't actually do anyting about it.

Although if the right person got into a position of authority, I think there really is a big chance of something big happening.

[Rubystars]

.

If we had a politically active nation, I think that the risk for civil war would be a lot greater.

Certainly there are irreconcilable differences between the left and the right in this country, such as one side thinking it's ok to kill developing babies even in the third trimester, and one side believing life begins at conception. One side thinking that homosexuality is 'normal' and that homosexuals should be able to get legally 'married' and to adopt children, etc. and one side believing that's wrong. One party believes in raising taxes and increasing government social programs and the other side (at least in theory, George W. has pretty much expanded the government beyond all reason) believes in cutting taxes and reducing the size of government even if it means reforming or removing social programs.

Some people believe that after the last two presidential elections, that were very close, especially the one between Gore and Bush, that was almost a tie, that we have half the country in the first camp and half the country in the second camp and since there's no way to reconcile these differences, that eventually something has to break. I disagree with that because most Americans don't care who the president is, they just get pissed off when he butts into their tv programs.

There are politically active minorities on both sides, and a large majority of people who are politically ambivalent. They don't have a core ideology, and if they vote at all, they're more likely to be swayed by speeches and campaign ads than people who firmly self identify as being Democrat or Republican or liberal or conservative.

[rahmota]

I'll agree that right now people are too apathetic, or lazy to actually do anything outside their comfort zone except bitch and moan about the situation. But there does come a time in a society or person's lives where they cannot take anythign more and something happens. That thre is a point in time that is a nexus or flashpoint for all the change and anger that is building up.

I believe we are on the precipice of that event. That we can either step back from it or let thigns continue and go over the edge. For at least the past 20-30 years we've been teetering closer to that edge and dancing back from it. People can only remain unmotivated and apathetic so long. Calm waters sometimes have deep currents. And those people whore are so easily swayed by political ads can also be swayed or caught up in the currents of a charismatic individual or group.

And I will definately agree that a charismatic enough leader (with the right kind of moustache) would be able to drive people and get some momentum going. It is just how much momentum can be built up before people get lazy or tired again.

[squall]

I believe the closest we came to civil war in recent years would have probably been back in the 1950s and 1960s during the civil rights movements. There seems to be nothing that gets Southernors (I mean way back when, not today's southernors)more riled up than a little emancipation. We had college deans and state governors and police agencies defying the federal government's new law to desegregate schools. They stood outside schools, rifles in hand, until the national guard came and disarmed them(nonviolently). State governors in open, boasting defiance to federal regulations. If that ain't close to a civil war on the horizon, I don't know what is. And it's always race that seems to get everyone so riled up, I just don't understand it. I don't think we have come as close since then. We do, however, seem to have a renegade White House openly defiant to the House and Senate lately.

[Rapscallion]

And it's always race that seems to get everyone so riled up, I just don't understand it.

Harder to spot someone with one earring than to spot someone of a different colour, I guess.

Rapscallion

[yahurd]

according to the constitution, it is our eternal duty, not just right, to revolt, the way Washington seems to be going

[DesignFox]

I think a lot of the problem, too, is that most of us are completely in the dark about what is REALLY going on. The media spins things and truth can be difficult to discern from fact. Finding out what is REALLY happening takes a lot of effort, so most people just don't care.

I'll admit to being lazy, and until election time rolls around, I really don't pay as much attention to the news or the issues as I should.

[Barefootgirl]

its also true that in order to have a real civil war, you need a certain degree of personal discomfort across much of the country. I just don't think most Americans (from my viewpoint here across the Atlantic) are sufficiently uncomfortable to risk everything for any one issue.

[rahmota]

True the potential for a clear cut north and south style civil war is pretty low right now. There seems to be no real divisive enough subject like slavery was the last time around.

What might be a possibility though would be a civil war of several factions. Sections splintering off and forming their own regions based on their own motivational factors.

Squall: I believe rapscallion has it better there. Much easier to target and hate someone based on the color of their skin than something as transitory as an earring or as invisible as gender preference.

Yahurd: Exactly. The peasant's revolt is the final arbiter of the distribution of power.

Designfox: What you describe is exactly part of the problem. People dont want to or dont care to know whats really going on and as long as they are not personally affected then they are not concerned about the situation. A rather sad thing imo.

[Greenday]

If America has another Civil War, I can assure you it won't be a normal war. Our first Civil War, we had the south and the north. Considering there are rich and poor people everywhere, and liberals and consvervatives everywhere, there will be no clear the one side is over here and the other side is over there. I think it'd be more of a coup than anything. Guerilla fighters in mass vs. the military.

[smileyeagle1021]

Sorry to revive a dead thread, but it seems somewhat pertinent to the here and now again. With all the death threats against President Elect Obama and conservatives going to ever lower depths to prevent progess (and yes, that is a biased statement, I will admit it). But as Greenday said that it would likely be a coup... how likely is it that the growing minority of people who want to keep the United States as a "Christian Nation" where all abortions are illegal, gay marriage is not only illegal but gays are treated as having a mental illness, and all socialized services are discontinued will rebel against the growing majority that will peacefully elect administrations that aren't going to outlaw abortions outright, are going to allow gay marriage, and will increase the amount of socialized services?

[AFPheonix]

Except that I don't think they're a growing minority.
It's mostly the older generation of believers that have that issue, and they're dying off. Younger Christians, unless heavily brainwashed, tend to be more liberal than their forebears much like, well, any youth.
There will be stinks made, yes, but I don't think we're in any more danger of a coup than we were when Clinton was in power, especially since Obama earned the most votes in the history of the US. I think he has a pretty powerful mandate, really.