What to do in these modern times????

[Racket_Man]

in days past when one passed on (either thru natural causes or accident or <diety> forbid suiside) the persons left behind could literally go through a person life via a papertrail that was that persons life. For example the various legal documents (such as inusrance policies, wills, deeds, etc.), a person's writings or journals, bank accounts, investment stuff, photographs, music/audio and (more recently) video collection, and other such items.

now-a-days so much of the lives of people is spent/recorded on-line that this brings to light a new and quite different "trail" to be followed. as it stands today most younger person live their lives on-line and have loads of info "out in the cloud". so what happens when the people left behind want to access that information in the cloud.

right now it seems there is few legal decisions or president on how this information can be accessed by the "legal" heirs of someone who has passed on.



This article is about the parents of a 21 year old man who committed suiside and Facebook and Google are fighting (citing privacy and scam attempts) letting the parents access his on-line accounts (which might provide a clue to why he killed himself).
http://rockcenter.msnbc.msn.com/_new...n-you-die?lite


I do like one of the commentors who said this:

Facebook lacks privacy yet refuses to give grieving parents their son's password----kind of contradictory in practice don't you think.

funny how fb worries about the privacy of a dead users info to his family but will whore out everyones info to the highest paying companies,man fb is one bad pimp....................................

and maybe someone who has military experience can explain this commentor

One of my dutiies in the Navy was to oversee the shipment of personal effects to the next of kin when someone on the ship died. We routinely removed and disposed of anything that could have been hurtful to the memory of their loved one. I imagine that someone like this young man who killed himself might have some activity which would do nothing but cause addtional pain for them.

what are your thoughts on this subject??? should there be regulations governing the "disposial" of electronic legacies in the same manner that the physical stuff is handled.

[Andara Bledin]

Honestly, considering that both email and social networking involve more than just communications from the deceased, I can't really be on the side of the heirs in such cases. You can't just invade the privacy of everybody that traded emails, private messages, and IMs with him just for the sake of closure.

The only information that should be given to them should be limited to a list of public accounts and their associated user names and no more unless the deceased specifically arranged for something more substantial and/or invasive.

If the other parties involved in any communication choose to come forward and share what they know with the family, that is another matter entirely.

^-.-^

[HYHYBT]

Some things, people want kept private (at least between themselves and whoever they chose to share with.) If someone wants their heirs to be able to access their online accounts, they can leave a list of passwords. If they don't, then they don't want you to see that stuff and it's none of your business, even if they're no longer here to tell you so.

That so much private stuff was in the form of physical objects made the possibility of others' looking through them necessary. Most of it *isn't* necessary for any other reason (voyeurism not being a valid reason.) I especially don't like the idea of someone you didn't grant permission to being allowed to *use* your Facebook or email account. Facebook already marks your birth at the bottom of your timeline; when you die, they should simply add your death at the top and lock the account. Email is, I admit, a bit different: especially with paperless billing, there may well be items in there that *have* to be taken care of as part of closing out an ended life's business... but at the very least, it should be read-only access.

[Andara Bledin]

Even in the case of email, I don't believe access should be given to the family, only a legal professional charged with acquiring the necessary information required to close out a person's affairs, and no more.

I honestly think it's more than a bit skeevy to want to go through a dead person's effects without having been granted permission before-hand.

^-.-^

[Hyena Dandy]

Yeah, there are a lot of things on my FB pages that I don't want my parents seeing. Not because of me, because there are people who have shared things that they wouldn't want getting out. I promised them I wouldn't tell, and I'm not.

FB doesn't just have things that the person told everyone else. It has private conversations.

As you said, people spend a lot of their lives online. It's one thing to, after I'm dead, want to check out everything in my bedroom. It's another to want to hear every personal conversation I've had with my friends in the last few years.

[siead_lietrathua]

i hope online companies don't start giving out passwords of the deceased.
i mean, think of the people that keep their business material (confedential records, etc) in encrypted servers as a backup. could be hellish if some of those files got loose because of a curious relative.

plus, alot of people use encrypted accounts to hide things from their family. like porn. and noone should have to go through uncle bobbies spank folder anyway. lol.

[Jetfire]

But how is it that much different from the old days when the executer/family would go through whatever letters you saved? The volume is a lot more nowadays because people tend to be digital packrats whether they realize it or not, but the same private/embarassing information could be lurking physically as easily as digitally. (Uncle Bobby's spank folder used to be the Playboy/Playgirl collection under the mattress; now it's a semi-hidden file on his hard drive/collection of book marks.)

On the flip side of this equation, is what should be done with our digital lives when we pass on? (Something that strikes close to home with many people here given this month). It's something I think of every so often, but like a will, it's something I keep putting off. (I know I'm bad), especially since another online friend of mine passed away a couple of years ago.

It's something that people should think about, both for their Real Life and their Digital lives. What communities do you belong to should be notified, and which ones will you just be one of the ones that just disappears? What should be done with your online presence, your webpages and stories and art and other creations? How do you keep track of the passwords to get access to those creations so your executers can (or can't) get to them?

For me personally, I haven't really figured out what or how I want to handle that; and I'm still at an age that I figure I have a long time left to sort it out. But I know the reaper is still behind me somewhere, getting closer to me every day that goes by, and some day I'm going to have to get that sorted out before I do actually kick off from this mortal realm.

Just some extra food for thought I guess.

[Ginger Tea]

Passwords change all the time, I should know I had to get a new one as my old pc died, so for the will a list of up to date passwords would need to be kept on line somewhere or on a usb keychain, mabye an off shoot of a WoW Authenticator?

Regarding the Naval quote, im reminded of a sketch show where a grieving family go to their sons apartment, prior to that you see a special branch of funeral directors taking away his sex toys gimp suits and bdsm paraphinalia, leaving behind a bible and wholesom trinkets.

[Nekojin]

But how is it that much different from the old days when the executer/family would go through whatever letters you saved? The volume is a lot more nowadays because people tend to be digital packrats whether they realize it or not, but the same private/embarassing information could be lurking physically as easily as digitally. (Uncle Bobby's spank folder used to be the Playboy/Playgirl collection under the mattress; now it's a semi-hidden file on his hard drive/collection of book marks.)

On the flip side of this equation, is what should be done with our digital lives when we pass on? (Something that strikes close to home with many people here given this month). It's something I think of every so often, but like a will, it's something I keep putting off. (I know I'm bad), especially since another online friend of mine passed away a couple of years ago.

It's something that people should think about, both for their Real Life and their Digital lives. What communities do you belong to should be notified, and which ones will you just be one of the ones that just disappears? What should be done with your online presence, your webpages and stories and art and other creations? How do you keep track of the passwords to get access to those creations so your executers can (or can't) get to them?

For me personally, I haven't really figured out what or how I want to handle that; and I'm still at an age that I figure I have a long time left to sort it out. But I know the reaper is still behind me somewhere, getting closer to me every day that goes by, and some day I'm going to have to get that sorted out before I do actually kick off from this mortal realm.

Just some extra food for thought I guess.

The difference is that when you're talking about physical possessions, SOMEONE has to take them. They can't just sit where they are indefinitely - love letters don't just vanish into the ether. While the idea of, "Burn it all," holds some appeal, it becomes trickier when you realize that in many cases, the finder is NOT the owner, and therefore has no legal right to destroy these items.

Things are a bit simpler with virtual information. It's not taking up physical space, and its continued existence isn't imposing on someone else's property (Google doesn't really care if your email account sits there indefinitely, for example).

It's also worth making a distinction in the motives of the people involved. If a person wants their memoirs made available to their heirs, they have the right and ability to either pass the data on before they die, or allow for its disposition in their will. However, if it's the relatives trying to dig into the deceased's dirt, they don't really have a right to that. They need to prove a compelling public interest before they can override the deceased's privacy.

[crashhelmet]

and maybe someone who has military experience can explain this commentor

Quote:
One of my dutiies in the Navy was to oversee the shipment of personal effects to the next of kin when someone on the ship died. We routinely removed and disposed of anything that could have been hurtful to the memory of their loved one. I imagine that someone like this young man who killed himself might have some activity which would do nothing but cause addtional pain for them.

For soldiers, wars can often change them. It can be a slight personality/outlook change to full on PTSD. There are some things that are better left unknown. It could be anything from pictures, to journals, or souvenirs. Other things they could destroy could be letters from exes, pictures, or anything else that may cause "drama" back home.

My sister-in-law's niece passed away at the age of 24 a few years ago. She had been having health issues brought on by her lifestyle choice. My sister-in-law gathered up her computers and brought them to me to retrieve any information her family might want to keep and to have anything detrimental to her memory "cleansed." Unfortunately, I did a lot of cleaning.

[PepperElf]

what are your thoughts on this subject??? should there be regulations governing the "disposial" of electronic legacies in the same manner that the physical stuff is handled.

I fully understand why the military might clean records up a bit. Sometimes they have to - if say, national secrets are involved - but other times it's to lessen the blow. I mean I can see say... not giving the next of kin the clothes the deceased was wearing if they're soaked in blood etc. And not giving them the suicide notes if it's determined that the note would serve no purpose other than breaking their hearts.

But legally it's a different ball of wax for military anyway - while serving, our rights can be taken away from us. So things may be handled differently.


But in the civilian world... I can see both sides. My family say, doesn't have the right to access my gmail* while I'm alive but... if dead should they?



My own ideas for solutions...

1) If you want your loved ones or NOK to have access, give them the passwords. Or set something up where they will be given access after your death.

2) Look at the will - if the deceased has left "everything to Person X" then that should include online accounts too.

3) Start encouraging online accounts to be included in assets for wills.
a) either allowing the accounts to be continued by the person named
b) or allowing the person access for x amount of time to settle affairs etc.
c) Or specifically state "no access" or access only for accounts on "website x for account x" etc



* although to be honest she has the password anyway. i gave Mom a list of ... well not all my accounts, but the ones that mattered most (gmail, bank etc) when I went on deployment last. she probably has the list still. and i have the passwords to both of her email accounts too.

i should do the same with my bf really.

[Andara Bledin]

This is definitely something that should be considered when drawing up wills (and every adult should have, at the very least, some sort of note regarding disposition of such things, no matter their age - those who are not yet adults, shouldn't have anything their parents don't have access to in the first place).

However, I do not agree that things that include correspondence should automatically be shared.

While it is true that people should take the time and care to delete such missives that they absolutely don't want anyone else to see (and that don't need to be saved for other reasons) and people should take care to not send messages that they wouldn't want getting out into the wild, I really don't believe that electronic communication should be treated in the same manner as physical communication.

Letters take time to write, time to prepare to post, and effort to put through the mail. Email and private messages, however, take much less time and are therefore much more likely to contain information of a sensitive nature for not just the deceased, but for those who survive them. It is their privacy that I have the most concern for, which is why I think that such things should be handled by people who are charged with not releasing information as part of their professional duties; people for whom keeping secrets is essentially part of their jobs. They would be able to review the information found, determine which of it has relevance to any legal proceedings (cyberbullying could be a factor, for example, or the closing of accounts), which of it can be printed out as "effects" for the family/loved ones, and which should be purged as private and unrelated to anything that people who do not already know need to be made aware of.

^-.-^