"Porn culture"

[Silverharp]

I love a litte comic called Sinfest, although sometimes the writer can be a bit on the preachy side, such as here and here

Here's some of the statements that I have heard, reasons to ban porn

"All porn is degrading to women"
Some of it? Yes. I've seen porn that makes me sick wih how the women involved are treated. So I chose not to watch it. People need to remember that it's NOT REAL. It is a set up situation with girls who contact a the site's casting, waivers are signed, etc.
How the hell do people NOT think that if guys were driving around in vans offering women hundreds of dollars for a blowjob and NOT get picked up for soliciting? Or rape by deception when they drive off and leave the women stranded with no clothes or situation like the various "casting couch" style sites?

And I'm not even going to start on the porn companies owned by women that refute this. I've seen some work that is artistic, beautiful and ROWR.
Not to mention Hef.
Hef. 'nuff said.

"It's legalized prostitution"
To which I say: So. Fucking. What.
It the environment is safe, the actors are safe, you have drug and STD testing, then have at it! Everyone has a talent, for some that happens to be getting it on and having a good time on the camera.

"Porn causes sexual assaults"
There has yet to be ANY proof of this. EVER. Saying that because a sex offender has a fixation on porn, therefor his fixation on porn caused him (or her) to be a sex offender is circular, self serving logic. It's like saying that because a chicken eats corn, the corn made the chicken fat and was killed for food, therefore corn killed the chicken.

To refute: Repression leads to obsession. Number one case for this argument is Provo, Utah. Highest per capita LDS population in the world, and highest on line porn usage in all of North America. Think about it.

"Porn causes teh gay!"
Not even going to dignify this pile of steaming horse shit with a response


So before I write a bloody book here, what are your thoughts on porn. Pro or Con? If VERY con, what is your reasoning?

[Peppergirl]

"Porn causes teh gay!"
Not even going to dignify this pile of steaming horse shit with a response

Do some of these anti-porn idiots actually say this? I'm dying laughing, but shouldn't be surprised, truly.

[Ginger Tea]

Well I've found some camera angles to be more for the male apreciation society than anything else, man having his way and all they film is his hairy arse ...

mind you they could say that anal sex leads to homosexuality.
cos fucking a girl up the bum is just like fucking a guy, so each time you watch or induldge in giving anal sex, you are having gay sex with your girlfriend.

Other than that I have no bloody idea (transgender porn not withstanding)

[PepperElf]

"All porn is degrading to women"

That one always confuses me.

In today's market, how is it degrading? Are these not adult women capable of making their own decisions?


As long as they're adult and willing, I don't see why any other woman has a right to dictate what they can and cannot make for adult entertainment. Be it straight, lesbian, BDSM, Dom/Sub, Furry, or any other theme you can think of... If the actors are adults and doing this of their own will, it's no one else's business.


What bugs me the most... when people say "This offends all women," when they really mean it offends them personally. I never gave them permission to speak for me, so I really wish they'd stop projecting their own tastes on the entire gender as if they're the only ones allowed to speak for us.

[HYHYBT]

[edit to clarify: this post is a direct reply to Peppergirl, not PepperElf. I left the computer for a while before typing my post and didn't think to refresh the page first. I also didn't realize until just now that they were different people, a fact which makes a lot more sense of some things.]

Some do. And yes, they mean *straight* porn.

If I remember rightly, the reasoning (to the extent it can be called that) goes something like this: porn is used for masturbation. Masturbation is a sex act where only one person is involved. You are of the same sex as yourself. Therefore, on some level, masturbation is an inherently homosexual act. Now add the pretense that being gay is caused by doing gay things until you acquire a taste for them, and voila, porn turns people gay. Either that or it's because porn is made from soy

(Which also ties into another point in the OP: how can porn which does not include women at all degrade them?)

[Silverharp]

As long as they're adult and willing, I don't see why any other woman has a right to dictate what they can and cannot make for adult entertainment. Be it straight, lesbian, BDSM, Dom/Sub, Furry, or any other theme you can think of... If the actors are adults and doing this of their own will, it's no one else's business.

Many of those I've heard do the "all porn is degrading" also try to push the "sex = rape ALWAYS" idea.
The sad part is that these are educators pushing this, whcih means they're getting paid to screw with kids perception of sex as a healthy, natural thing.
Or healthy and unnatural given the right date.

[Nekojin]

With regard to the Sinfest strips, I don't think that Tatsuya Ishida is being quite as preachy as you're inferring, Silverharp. I'd like to point out that he regularly uses iconography a great deal in his social strips. In these strips (and most strips along these themes), Squigley is being quite deliberately used to represent overdoing things, taking things to excess. In the same vein, Slick is used to represent male machismo/ego, and Monique represents female ego/vanity.

Many of those I've heard do the "all porn is degrading" also try to push the "sex = rape ALWAYS" idea.
The sad part is that these are educators pushing this, whcih means they're getting paid to screw with kids perception of sex as a healthy, natural thing.
Or healthy and unnatural given the right date.

The "All sex is rape" meme originates with Andrea Dworkin, and is often misattributed to Catherine MacKinnon. It's a common theme among the extreme end of militant feminists. Although she didn't originally mean it quite so directly, her original quote (if I remember correctly) is, "All men are potential rapists," which (strictly speaking) is sort-of true. The average man could overpower the average woman, and most men DO think about it once in a while. One of my favorite authors, Spider Robinson, through one of his characters once states, "It's a wonder that we don't just throw you down and take it more often. We must love you very much."

When getting to the ones who use the, "all sex is rape," meme, ask them why they think so little of women. When they give a confused look, say, "Well, you obviously seem to think that the women are incapable of giving informed consent..."

[Mishi]

When getting to the ones who use the, "all sex is rape," meme, ask them why they think so little of women. When they give a confused look, say, "Well, you obviously seem to think that the women are incapable of giving informed consent..."

The answer that I've had in relation to this is: "All women are brainwashed from birth by the patriarcy and therefore do not have free will in regard to healthy sexual relationships as well as many other areas, so they aren't able to provide informed consent."

My next question is usually asking how they managed to escape the programming and the answers vary from: "I'm a Christian and I was set free from it when I was saved." to "I became enlighted through the works of various feminist authors."

I did have one person try to tell me that (condensed): "Lesbianism is directly linked to porn and was created by men in order to control women, that women aren't inherently sexual beings, and that all women are actually asexuals that have been programmed by the patriarchy to think that they enjoy sex. "

[Andara Bledin]

Hey, if somebody "programmed" me to enjoy sex, tell me who that was so I can send 'em a huge thank you card, would ya?

^-.-^

[Nyoibo]

I think the best way to thank someone for enjoying sex is thankyou sex.

[PepperElf]

"All men are potential rapists," which (strictly speaking) is sort-of true.

And it's true for women as well. Yes women are usually not as strong as men, but ... some women ARE stronger and... not all rapists use physical strength to achieve their goals anyway.

There's still the ability to rape both men and women through... seduction, drugs / alcohol, mental acuity, coercion and threats, and the often-ignored fact that some men *don't* fight back because, the moment they do... society & the law will brand them as women-beaters.

[edit to clarify: this post is a direct reply to Peppergirl, not PepperElf. I left the computer for a while before typing my post and didn't think to refresh the page first. I also didn't realize until just now that they were different people, a fact which makes a lot more sense of some things.]

*ROFL* wait... in just this thread or the entire message board?

but don't worry, you're not the only one. When PepperGirl got selected to be a mod over on CS they originally messaged me which had me VERY confused.

[Silverharp]

One of my favorite authors, Spider Robinson, through one of his characters once states, "It's a wonder that we don't just throw you down and take it more often. We must love you very much."

You just got triple points for using a Spider quote.
I got to see him at SDCC a lot of years ago when him and Jeanne were on a signing tour (very sad to hear about Jeanne), and he really puts off that "mellow hippie" vibe in person. Love the guy.

[Silverharp]

With regard to the Sinfest strips, I don't think that Tatsuya Ishida is being quite as preachy as you're inferring, Silverharp. I'd like to point out that he regularly uses iconography a great deal in his social strips. In these strips (and most strips along these themes), Squigley is being quite deliberately used to represent overdoing things, taking things to excess. In the same vein, Slick is used to represent male machismo/ego, and Monique represents female ego/vanity.

Normally I get the feeling that his tongue is firmly in cheeck, but with the current series of strips it feels different to me.
Maybe it's just me getting over the zombie plague nd being unable to discern parody, but it feels more direct this time, less ironic.

[HYHYBT]

*ROFL* wait... in just this thread or the entire message board?

In general.

[siead_lietrathua]

i dunno why people treat porn as a gateway to deviancy. people will generally only look up porn of things they already have a "taste" for. like that one comic seemed to imply the dude looking up generic fluffy girl porn will suddenly get embroiled into BDSM. er, doubt it. i know some horny, porn consuming geeks that are very selective in their tastes and that havent changed in years.

to the degredation of women part, how many harliquin novels have women held captive or put in the care of an aggressive male that takes control of them both in and out of bed? even when it's a "fierce" female lead? that stuffs written for women, usually by women.

as to all sex being rape.... makes me want to punch someone. while i know they mean it to imply that all sex is bad, it can also be interpreted the opposite, as rape being no big deal since it's just sex.

feminists need to follow the same rules as government when it comes to sex: stay the fuck out of our bedrooms.