History from other perspectives

[KitterCat]

One of the things I've always wanted to do was travel to a few different European countries and take history classes there. I'd love to see WII from Japan's view, or Germany's, or Italy's.

Greenday if your willing to spend a little money you can get newsreel’s from the time for Germany. It can be highly informative as to the mindset of the country and how things started and continued during WWII. Website is www.germanwarfilms.com My hubbies really really big on studying wars America has fought in and heavily into WWII. He’s gotten into finding direct source material for the backgrounds of the other countries involved, especially Germany and Russia/USSR

I will warn you some of them are a bit boring,. Its exactly like watching the news today. You get to see the politics of the time and how the public responded. As the Third Reich comes into power and solders go marching down streets or into battle. However you just like in today’s news you don’t need to watch each days newscast. It will be a repetition of the same information if you do that.

Almost forgot to warn you the movies/newsreels are subtitled. You will occasionally need to pause to read whats being said since at times the news caster would go far faster than one could read.

[Pixilated]

Well, see, the British Empire was created when a Norman warrior tried to pick up on a Saxon barmaid...

No, wait, that's the origin of the English language, not the British Empire. Never mind.

Explains a lot about the English language, doesn't it?

*snip*

The Japanese still gloss over the nastier aspects of WWII: the slave labor camps and mines where POWs were worked to death, and their forced enlistment of Korean women into "comfort brigades" to serve as prostitutes to the Japanese army. It's still a very sensitive issue between Japan and South Korea and Japan continues to refuse to apologize for it.

But of course they continue to make a huge show of holding memorials to the bomb strikes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki ... I find that more than a little hypocritical. By the time the Japanese government grows a pair and is willing to take responsibility and apologize, the people to whom it means the most will be dead.

Granted Canadian Knowledge of 1812 is:

We burned down the White House. (Really the Brits who did that, but we claim it anyway. :P )
Something about Laura Secord raising a warning of an impending attack (possibly with chocolate involved. )

*snip*

I think the chocolate came later, although nowadays it's the best part of that whole historical episode.

Canadian history is, I think, pretty fragmented. I grew up in Ontario and can barely remember being taught any Canadian history at all, but I do know that some significant events in our history are viewed very differently in different parts of the country. Probably the best example is Louis Riel, a Métis (mix of Native and French), a founder of the province of Manitoba, and the leader of the Red River Rebellion (1869-1870) and the North-West Rebellion (1885). He was trying to preserve the rights and culture of the Métis as the settlers spread out westward. After the NWR, he was tried for treason, convicted and executed.

Quebec was always sympathetic towards him, and I think that out on the Prairies he's also always been considered a folk hero. Not so in Ontario. My brother, on one of his first visits out there to his now-inlaws' house, was watching a parade when a float about Riel went by.

Brother: "Wait -- wasn't he executed for treason?"

*Heads start turning*

One of his now BILs: "IT'S OKAY! HE'S FROM ONTARIO! HE DOESN'T KNOW ANY BETTER!!"



A survey a couple of years ago suggested that, if Riel were tried again today, he would not be convicted (even in Ontario).

[Jetfire]

It's been a long time, since I was in School, let alone junior or high school, so I can't really remember what I was taught.

Add in the fact that I was in French Immersion so my Social Studies/History course was taught in french didn't help either.

IIRC, what little Canadian history I learned was more about the Discovery of Canada, and it's early explorers like Cabot and stuff. We got to Confederation, and then history seemed to stop. (Didn't even get into the World Wars, let alone 1812 which I think we more or less skipped or skimmed over). I've picked up more history from my own learning later, from TV (History Bytes was a great, fun take on history) and other sources.

[Estil]

Thats why I do my own research outside of school.

I just recently watched a documentary on the aftermath of the Civil War. History teachers just stop after Lincoln was killed and move to World War I. The Civil War lasted a lot longer than people are taught.

(yes forgive me for bumping an old topic but I just gotta cut in on this one)

Stop after Lincoln (1865) and skip ahead to WWI (1914)??? Just 50 years (give or take) or about 20-25% of America's story (and that's just counting 1776 onwards) just skipped over? I mean what did they think oh, Reconstruction didn't matter a hill of beans?

Or say these Presidents weren't worth mentioning? There's Johnson (the first to be impeached), Grant (just that guy on the $50 bill and the guy who made Christmas a federal holiday; thank you Bill O'Reilly ), Garfield (not the cat), Arthur, Cleveland, Harrison, Cleveland (no that's not a typo; all he did was be the only one to be the big guy two non-consecutive times and get on the $1000 bill), McKinley (made the $500 bill...probably for the same reason Kennedy made the half dollar, that's TWO Presidents shot and killed, I guess only Lincoln/Kennedy count? :P ), Teddy Roosevelt (all he ever did was get on Mt. Rushmore) and finally Taft. Geez Taft is sure not worth a mention, all HE ever did was become the only person to be President AND Chief Justice.

The list of course could go on and on (there were other financial panics besides the Depression during that apparently "not important era", the big gold/silver debate, the birth of labor unions and the horrific labor conditions that made them necessary in the first place). Geez where did those teachers get their lesson plans/textbooks/etc? From a cereal box?

[TheHuckster]

Garfield was also assassinated. Within a year of his inauguration. In his short time as president, he actually accomplished quite a few things.

I agree on the lack of teaching of this period of time. In grade school, I was always frustrated that American History courses consisted solely of The Revolutionary War, The Civil War, The Great Depression, and WWII. There were a few things that trinkled in, like a brief mention of the Spanish-American war, Teapot Dome, and a very limited tangent on Reconstruction, but it was mostly glazed over. It wasn't until college that I took a specific course on 20th century American History (well, IIRC it was more 1880s to present), which went much more in depth into the Spanish-American war, the world wars with the roaring 20s in between, the Korean war, Vietnam war, and it went as recent as the First Gulf War. When I took the course (2003) the textbook was so current it mentioned our initial invasion of Iraq just months prior. Before that, the best exposure I got to some of the 50s and onward were told to me by my parents who lived in that time, and besides that there was Forrest Gump.

Of course, school systems differ, plus since I sort of bounced around from district to district a little bit between late-elementary and high-school (really more like public-to-private), it might have contributed to my learning the same things repeatedly, but it was still annoying to me at the time.

[Estil]

Yeah one of my favorite professors Mark Summers (NO, not the Double Dare host!!) at UK (University of KY, not United Kingdom) kinda had a pet peeve of essay answers that were just "here's what happened in this war, here's what happened in that war..." and in one exam I remember threatened to give a big fat zippola for an answer like that. Oh yeah and he also happened to be featured on "The Presidents" mini-series from the History Channel too

Oh yeah and regarding Hayes, you think the 2000 election was controversial, that was NOTHING compared to what the 1876 one was like. Not to mention John Quincy Adams got to be President not only despite not having the most popular votes, but was second in the Electoral College too. See Andrew Jackson got the most Electoral votes but both then and now that's not enough. You must get a majority or more than half to get to be the big guy.

[Andara Bledin]

Here's a fun question about US history: What happened to the natives?

I mean, the ones Columbus and his cronies didn't hunt down like animals for sport while stealing their riches, that is... >_>

[Kheldarson]

Here's a fun question about US history: What happened to the natives?

I mean, the ones Columbus and his cronies didn't hunt down like animals for sport while stealing their riches, that is... >_>

Do you mean in general? As in a why the hell were Europeans even able to colonize here general?

Plague happened. Some was early contact *points to South America* but NA tribes got hit with something nasty before Europe showed up.

[HYHYBT]

We certainly got a lot about Reconstruction the year we had Georgia history, but even other years I remember learning about wildly swinging economic cycles, the Populist party, Sherman Anti-Trust Act, that sort of thing from that period. There was other stuff, but I don't now remember what. But that it didn't stick doesn't mean it wasn't covered, and that some things did means those years weren't skipped over. Oh, inventions! This was also the time period when electric lights, the telephone, etc. were changing life. That's history and was taught as such. Easy to forget that history isn't just politics.

[Tama]

Shows what kind of history class I took. When I read:

history isn't just politics

My very first thought was, "It's not?" I know better but it was my first reaction.

[TheHuckster]

Yes, we did cover the robber barons and subsequent anti-trust laws afterwards, too.

I still feel as though the period between 1860 and 1910 were mostly glossed over, though. We talked a little about reconstruction, but a lot of the story was left out. For instance, obviously after the emancipation proclamation was made and the 13th amendment was passed, it didn't magically end all slavery. The government had to enforce it, and there was a lot of resistance for decades after slavery officially ended, which had to be met with intervention by police.

I don't recall much discussion about that part of reconstruction in grade school, and I feel as though that's an important topic to cover. History teachers brought up the 13th Amendment as if it was some magic pill that ended all slavery in 1865, and in 1866 people just started rebuilding the south in peace and unity. Again, it wasn't until college that they covered some of the aspects of reconstruction and how it wasn't really such a peaceful time, albeit it was far more peaceful than the war that came before it.

[Mental_Mouse]

Here's a fun question about US history: What happened to the natives?

I mean, the ones Columbus and his cronies didn't hunt down like animals for sport while stealing their riches, that is... >_>

Well, IIRC Columbus didn't come anywhere near as far north as the 13 original colonies. The big thing was that the various Spanish explorers had introduced smallpox and other new diseases to the continent, which spread like wildfire with something like a 90% fatality rate. So, the later settlers further north could easily spread into a nearly-depopulated area, which seemed miraculously bountiful... because those "forests" were recently-abandoned orchards and game parks.

[cindybubbles]

One of the things I've always wanted to do was travel to a few different European countries and take history classes there. I'd love to see WII from Japan's view, or Germany's, or Italy's. The American revolution from England. The War of 1812 from Canada.

I learned about the War of 1812 in high school. I think it's what promoted the development of a strong Canadian identity, because of our victories over the invading US forces. It prevented Canada from becoming the 51st US state, at least, officially, I think. I forgot all about it after high school, so please pardon my ignorance.

Maybe Gravekeeper can help out with this one?

[Rapscallion]

Something occurred to me today about this.

A guy I work with and I were talking and the subject of the Turing film with Benedict Pumpkinpatch came up. Said youth (early twenties maybe?) was unaware of how Alan Turing was treated immediately after the war for his homosexuality. He was absolutely stunned.

In his own words, this happened within the lifetime of his grandparents, so I pointed out (feeling old) that it was within the lifetime of my parents. It's not just different countries, it's different times, and what has been covered up that is slowly coming to light is astounding.

Rapscallion