Breastfeeding

[Boozy]

Breastfeeding in public, children at restaurants and movies, mother-and-child parking spots...are all part of a bigger debate. There are those who see babies and children as members of the human race with rights attached, and those that see them as slightly less worthy of those rights than those who have reached adulthood.

Even well-behaved children with great parents can be loud and messy sometimes. I'm disturbed by the sheer lack of tolerance for them these days. They aren't "spawn", "crotch droppings" or any other nasty term I've read on CS. They are human beings, and deserving of respect.

As for "my baby doesn't like being covered up/wants eye contact" then the answer is simple; don't feed in public. Try and fit your life around your baby, not the other way round.

Essentially restricting a breast-fed child to their homes. This is short-sighted. Children's brains develop by exploring the world around them. A society that raises children with a strict "never seen and never heard" mentality is handicapping that generation for life.

Remember - one day this generation will be growing our food, building our houses, treating our illnesses, and changing our diapers in nursing homes.

The fact is, we all have to share this world together, and the word is compromise.

And what is the compromise you'd be willing to make on your part? You're quick to sentence a baby to house arrest, but refuse to simply avert your eyes when you see something that offends you? Is this a fair compromise?

[Greenday]

A world based on seniority? Hm, interesting. I still say there are times and places where everyone else takes precedence over one kid.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Boozy, don't put words into my mouth that I never said. I don't believe I ever said that all children should stay home. *eye roll* But part of compromise is that you cover up when feeding your child, and don't try and offend people "just cuz you can." Please actually read my posts; I already said that it doesn't bother me, cept when someone is deliberately being disrespectful.

It wouldn't take that long to find a bench in a mall or a quiet corner to feed your child, or to place the child inside your shirt or put a blanket over the top rather than just tearing your shirt open.

One thing; why single out my post when I was agreeing with another person's point of view and have already said that I am fine with it as long as respect is going both ways? I find it a bit upsetting to be singled out and attacked in this way when I'm hardly the only, or even the first person, to express this point of view.

[BlaqueKatt]

As for "my baby doesn't like being covered up/wants eye contact" then the answer is simple; don't feed in public. Try and fit your life around your baby, not the other way round. Also, it seems to me that a baby who makes a fuss about being fed under cover has been allowed to act that way; if you only fed him under cover, he'd soon stop making the fuss.

yes because you can obviously "train" an autistic 3 month old

a misbehaving toddler can understand right/wrong/consequences an infant cannot-some days he wanted to nurse every 15 minutes sometimes(growth spurts happen to increase the need for milk* as does impending illness) he would go two hours-at the time where I lived it was a 90 minute car trip to get to the grocery store-so yes I would've been under "house arrest"-as an aside during the time he nursed I only ever had two people say anything-both commented on how beautiful the sight of a mother and child were-as I was normally looking at my son I didn't notice if anyone stared.

Try and fit your life around your baby, not the other way round.

Just to break this out-does a bottlefeeding mom have to do this as well or just one who choses to breastfeed? Because I would not want to think you would discriminate against a woman's right to feed her child in the manner she chooses,or may be medically necessary. And for the record my baby's head was larger than my breast, so in order to see anything you would've had to be standing over my shoulder looking down-and quite in my personal space-I showed less boob breastfeeding than I do in a tank top

And all states have laws protecting breastfeeding in public as a BASIC HUMAN RIGHT-sorry take it up with the lawmakers.

Also In Africa a bottlefeeding mother is shunned to the back, why? Only women with HIV/AIDS formula feed-think about that perspective-a developing country has no issue whatsoever with breastfeeding, but shuns bottefeeding. But We're "civalized"?

I know someone who is uncomfortable seeing people in wheelchairs-should we tell all of them they can't leave the house as someone might see them and be uncomfortable? What about people with scars/deformities? Oh Only breastfeeding mothers-ok then we'll just regale an entire group to second-class citizens for daring to feed their child in public.

Only in America is this even an issue-due to the fact that women are still seen as less than their male counterparts. Males can walk around topless on a beach(I've seen men with larger breasts than mine), yet women get arrested and fined. Europe and some other areas it's perfectly acceptable for women to be topless, those countries also have no issue with women breastfeeding in public, and the breastfeeding rates are higher.

the US average for exclusive breastfeeding at age 3 months(remember the American association of pediatricians recommends exclusive breastfeeding to age 6 months with the beginning of adding solids at that time, and continuing for a year-the World Health Organization recommends breastfeeding for at least two years) is 31.5 %, Rawanda's is 90%-these countries also do not allow direct marketing of artificial infant milk. The World Health Organization estimates 1.5 million infants die each year from not being breastfed-that's one every 30 seconds from IFBAN

The International Code of Marketing of Breast milk Substitutes was adopted by the World Health Assembly in 1981. The Assembly is the policy-setting body of the World Health Organization.

Baby food companies may not:

• Give free supplies of baby milk to hospitals;

• Promote their products to the public;

• Use baby pictures or other idealizing picture or text on their baby milk and bottle and teat labels;

• Give gifts to mothers or health workers;

• Give free samples to parents;

• Seek direct or indirect contact with pregnant women or mothers of children up to three years of age;

• Promote baby foods or drinks for babies under 6 months old;

Labels must be in a language understood by the mother and must include a prominent health warning.

Breastfed babies need no other food or drink for about the first 6 months of life. They also have reduced risk of diabetes, pneumonia, ear infections, and some cancers. Studies show that women who breastfeed may have a lower risk of breast and ovarian cancers and that their babies are less likely to die of cot death(SIDS) or suffer from allergies or obesity in later life.

The CDC is currently finding out that breast milk substitutes are contributing highly to childhood obesity, and childhood diabetes, and that lower socio-economic groups have much lower breastfeeding rates(breast milk substitutes are not cheap-further impoverishing the families.

Some More information on breast milk substitutes-straight fact-based information not from the manufacturer with a nutritional breakdown comparing the popular brands.

[Saydrah]

Okay, personally I don't see why this has to be a huge human rights debate. One should be considerate about exposing breasts in public, and one should be considerate about a baby's need to breastfeed when hungry. It might be common decency before whipping out an uncovered breast on a crowded bus to give a fair warning to your neighbor, like, "I need to breastfeed my infant, and he won't eat under a nursing blanket. I need to feed him now before he starts fussing and crying."

And if we're going into whether or not children have the same rights as adults, on public buses in my city, adults are not allowed to eat. So, if we want children to have all the exact same rights, then they should also be required to follow the rules. Personally, I say feed the baby. I'd rather sit next to a breastfeeder than a crying infant. It makes sense to me to apply the rules flexibly depending upon age, but if we want to demand kids and babies have the EXACT SAME RIGHTS as adults, then it's not fair to go assigning them additional rights as well.

Expanding upon that, no, children do NOT have the same rights as adults. For example, the right to enter into a contractual agreement should not be extended to a child without their parents' consent. What about the right to freedom of association? Does your child have the right to refuse to associate with people of a certain race, or to refuse to go to a certain school? I say that's the family's decision, not the child's, and many things should be. The child doesn't have the right to bear arms, either, and the founding fathers certainly considered that a human right.

There's a line between allowing children the freedom of self-determination and the right to make mistakes and learn from them, versus allowing children to take control of families. Telling children what to do and that sometimes they have no choice is not violating their rights.

[Boozy]

One thing; why single out my post when I was agreeing with another person's point of view and have already said that I am fine with it as long as respect is going both ways? I find it a bit upsetting to be singled out and attacked in this way when I'm hardly the only, or even the first person, to express this point of view.

Lace, I chose to quote your post because I felt that you had articulately and succinctly summarized the opposing point of view. You shouldn't take that personally. This is a debate forum. You expressed an opinion I disagreed with, so I chose to take up that aspect of the debate with you.

I'm sorry that you felt singled out and upset. There was no need to take it personally or interpret my response as an attack. There are many times you've said things I've agreed with. I was arguing the point, not the person.

[IDrinkaRum]

I fit myself around my bottle-fed daughter's schedule as much as I could. I was just worried about the formula going bad before she could drink it. Or the water being bad. Or something going wrong. (But then again, I had Post Partum Depression - which wasn't noticed nor was it treated - so I had weird reactions to everything).

As long as the breast-feeding mothers don't have their boobs hanging out in public at all times, I don't care how they breast feed. Just feed the darn child when they shriek in that 'OMG! I'm starving Mommy! Feed me!' cry.

[Gilgamesh]

Europe and some other areas it's perfectly acceptable for women to be topless, those countries also have no issue with women breastfeeding in public, and the breastfeeding rates are higher.

Must address this one.

I live in Finland. Nudity is, at the moment, far less an issue than in the States. You can show bare breasts on TV, families and men and women who don't even know each other can go to sauna together (not as common as before), and there probably are nudist beaches - not to mention the impromptu ones. Walking around topless is frowned upon, though. I don't know about Germany and the Netherlands - the countries most likely to have the most relaxed attitude - but my guess is that it’s pretty much confined to beaches and red-light areas.

In addition, breastfeeding is generally accepted and considered the best possible option. Hell, one of the Members of Parliament fed her baby while in session (about ten years ago, IIRC). Yet it is considered somewhat rude to bare it all.


EDIT:

Can't remember everything. I find it really annoying that some "supermommies" have the need to make others feel inadequate if they can't (or won't) breastfeed. My mother breastfed all of us at least ten months, but she also donated the extra - because not everyone produces enough. Nowadays, with all the diseases, donating is rare, but when there's clean water around, substitutes are a good replacement.

[Xanthina]

I've breastfed, and breastfed in public. I tried very hard to be discreet. I loved places that had a mother-baby room. I refuse to nurse in a bathroom. I either would have to stand(uncomfortable) or sit on a toilet(Eew!)

My issues comes when a place says you have to go to XYZ place to nurse. I love the option, I mostlikely will use it, but you can't force me to use it. In most states it's illegal even.

As with every aspect of my life, I like to have options.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Lace, I chose to quote your post because I felt that you had articulately and succinctly summarized the opposing point of view. You shouldn't take that personally. This is a debate forum. You expressed an opinion I disagreed with, so I chose to take up that aspect of the debate with you.

I'm sorry that you felt singled out and upset. There was no need to take it personally or interpret my response as an attack. There are many times you've said things I've agreed with. I was arguing the point, not the person.

Oh, ok. Thanks for telling me this; I'm sorry if I took it personally.

as for the "Bare breasts are fine in Africa", just go back to what I said before. Breasts here are sexual, end of.

Blaquekatt, you can't throw autism into the mix when you did not mention it before. Especially since I'm autistic, in a way, myself; I have AS. Yup, properly diagnosed. In any case, we've had this debate before. If your autistc child can't cope with a situation, then don't force him into it. It sucks, but then, it also sucks for every single mother in this situation so no need to feel victimised. It also sucks for every person unwittingly exposed to bare breasts when they don't wish to see them, for whatever reason; for example, Muslims might not appreciate it due to their beliefs.

[DesignFox]

When it comes to breastfeeding, it all should come down to respect.

I respect a mother's right to do what she's got to do for her child. But at the same time, I feel it is her responsibility to have some respect for the people around her. I'm sorry, I don't need to see your breasts flopping around in my face. It makes me uncomfortable. Just be discreet, or offer a polite "heads up" to the people around you. It's not that big a deal. Do what you gotta do, but don't be in people's faces about it.

Everything comes down to respect, and I don't understand what is so hard about the concept, nowadays.

[BlaqueKatt]

Blaquekatt, you can't throw autism into the mix when you did not mention it before.

I have previously mentioned that my son is autistic-we did not know until he was 2 years old-however I did not like being told that I allowed my 3 month old son to "misbehave"-an infant is not a dog you don't train them, a toddler yes an infant no. You compared my son not wanting a blanket over his head while nursing to a toddler yelling, screaming, and running roughshot in a store.

it also sucks for every single mother in this situation so no need to feel victimised.

Being told I should've stayed home by myself because I don't know when my son is going to want to eat, because I might offend someone, telling me my infant wasn't "trained" properly-no no reason to feel like a victim of an attack.

It also sucks for every person unwittingly exposed to bare breasts when they don't wish to see them, for whatever reason; for example, Muslims might not appreciate it due to their beliefs.

as I said previously you would have to be looking over my shoulder in my personal space to see anything.

If I spent my life worrying about what I did offending other people I'd have to live in a dark cave by myself somewhere-everything offends someone.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Again, you are reading things into what I said that aren't there.

1. You brought autism into this thread; how am I supposed to remember every single thing you ever say about your son? It's not my business to.

2. I never said that. Please stop twisting my words.

3. In which case, you are not the sort of person I am referring to, so please stop being so defensive.

Everything comes down to respect, and I don't understand what is so hard about the concept, nowadays.

I couldn't agree more; and I really can't understand why the concept of people not wanting to see a mother whip off her top and fling out her bare breasts is so repellent to certain people. -___-

[AFPheonix]

I couldn't agree more; and I really can't understand why the concept of people not wanting to see a mother whip off her top and fling out her bare breasts is so repellent to certain people. -___-

I have yet to see a nursing mom do that. Have you? The vast majority of the time moms pull their shirts up a bit on one side to get the job done. If a person wasn't sitting there staring, hoping for a flash of boob, they most likely wouldn't notice at all.

Seriously, to me it's a non-issue. Perhaps if more women did it, people would get more inured to seeing boobs and it would be a non-issue for more people. But then, this is the West, where Janet Jackson baring her boob for a millisecond was enough to make the news for weeks, prompting people to TiVo the moment and relive it over and over and over.....

[Lace Neil Singer]

I have actually; there was a woman in the local shopping centre escorted out by security cuz she whipped her top off. Yes, she had a baby, but this is the Western world where breasts are sexual and in any case, there was no need for her to do that. She was obviously looking for trouble and using her baby as an excuse to do so.