the racism of feminism

[crashhelmet]

The fact that it's not nearly the same thing doesn't automatically make it completely different and doesn't change the fact that I'm still against it.

I'm not saying it's completely different nor am I saying it's exactly the same. What I'm saying is that people, like this judge, argue against circumcision saying it's an "assault intended to cause bodily harm." Piercing of the ears and nose, like many parents (mothers especially) like to do to their children (daughters especially) causes bodily harm to the child, who may or may not understand what's going on or agree with what's being done to them.

Religion aside, There are medical benefits to infant circumcision

[Hyena Dandy]

Man, is this gonna turn into a circumcision debate?

[Kheldarson]

Probably. Should I bring popcorn?

On the original topic, though, I think the big thing is related to a difference between ethics and morals. If your moral system includes treatment of people in a certain way, or requires a certain dress, and you submit to that moral system voluntarily (and to a certain extent living in an area that supports it qualifies), then there's no issue for me. (Again, I'd like to submit that Sharia law and Islam are technically different.) However, you cannot impose your morals on someone who is outside your moral system because then you are violating not only their moral rights but also their ethical ones. Particularly if you're in a country that does not completely support your particular moral set.

Basically your moral rights stop when you try to violate someone else's moral or ethical rights. Period. Race, creed, gender doesn't matter.

I think this post made some sense. It's kinda getting late.

[Kelmon]

Indeed, i'm saying that parents should not be allowed to do *any* permanent body modification to children.

Since this is about our own law - it is not allowed to tattoo or pierce children before they are 14. And from 14 (the age of consent in Germany) onward, it needs the permission of the child, too. Which is why it was suggested to treat circumcision the same way. Seemed very sensible to me.

I had no intention of making this a discussion about circumcision of children in general. Keep in mind that in my country, circumcision is only done for religious and (actual) medical reasons, most of us aren't and consider it to be barbaric, so this ongoing discussion in the US is a non-issue for us.

This was just an example how bullying by religious groups lead to special rights for these groups - which i find disgusting, no matter what these rights are about.