CS Asian Stereotypes Fratching Edition

[Ginger Tea]

Original thread.

There are a few things I could and well am going to comment on, seeing as I don't have a CS account clash of cultures seems more apt, plus it might veer into fratching.

I think Cromatix post about Japanese sounds missed the point that Fudgethatkay's mother was taking the piss about his or her learning the language and using it im assuming "in 'murica", the whole chin chon bit is normally said with fingers pulled around the eyelids for extra effect.

Learning Japanese has been big since manga and Anime took off in the States, it was always there on the fringes as a language one could learn in universities, but now more are going into it due to wanting to watch Sub's and understand the words not those on the screen.

I currently am dabbling with Hangul the Korean script, which I think I can safely just call Korean as unlike Japanese they don't have multiple scripts, although I am cross scripting in whichever one it is that's more for foreign words, I will forget the name 3 seconds after reading it.
I am trying my screen name, real name and mashup of middle and mothers maiden name and get one or more in henna at some point.

Also is Korean the poor mans Japanese culture?
I paid little attention to Jpop let alone look at kpop or any other Asian musical export, jpop cos I never really liked the kwai loli stuff that some videos filled themselves with.
But Gangam style piqued my interest, I got into 4minute via the abysmal Huyna version (she is better in the group, but I get the impression she's the fan fave not for talent but wankometer) also a side bar had F(X) and I liked some of their songs, but they are a bit more on the pop where 4 can be varied to I love the song and can loop it to oh god kill it with fire, basically huyna's solo work.
But that tangent out of the way (plus it's going over old ground that I posted about months ago in another thread) up until that point was Korean music a thing outside of Korea (and touring Asian countries) or are we getting people interested in the country as a back up plan in case Japan is either too costly or harder to learn vs Korean (hint I've no idea bout either languages skill level apart from I personally suck).

Movie wise it matters little if I watch 3 Tartan Asia extreme movies that are Korean and 1 from Japan, as I am watching movies with subtitles and no sodding idea about the dialogue, take away street signs and I might not even know the language outside of a few key phrases.
So you could slap a Jpop song in the mix and I would not know it from Adam, unless I knew the band name (hint no I wouldn't).



Jesters post is probably the more fratching one, my comments that is not his post.
You can take "I am nationality" so far, you can claim to be Chinese, but if you and your parents are 4th generation and have never been to china then why not just say "I am American".
This is the same for European decendants as much as those from Asia, New York seems to be full of Irishmen if you ask them and it is not worded as if to say "My family comes from Ireland" but as if they themselves came to America when they were born there to American parents.

In Jester's family tree and dart board analogy, he could be part English, Polish, French, German and how ever many possible Great Great ancestors he can trace back to. To say he is of French origin would imply that his ancestors forbade their children and grand children from getting into a relationship with someone who wasn't "From the old country", but once the language barrier has gone and the children are American by birth, who gives a monkeys that your girlfriend's grand dad was from a country your grand dad didn't like.

And I would not be surprised if a 3rd generation Korean got together with a 3rd gen Japanese person and their child with a 4th gen Chinese person, unless there was some deep rooted bigotry about other countries other than "the old country". (no idea what the gender neutral wording would be so I just left it at that, I didn't want to pin a gender to either hypothetical parent)

Edit: I've had the mocking my 2nd language lessons too, in 2005 I took an entry course in British Sign Language and one house mate ended up "Signing" utter crap and it wasn't international swearing, if anyone with a more fluent understanding translated what he signed I think the response would be "chin chon tu tu"

[Mongo Skruddgemire]

Original thread.You can take "I am nationality" so far, you can claim to be Chinese, but if you and your parents are 4th generation and have never been to china then why not just say "I am American".

Because they will not let us be.

Case in point. This is going back to my early school days. Third grade in fact. We were doing some cultural awareness day and we were to learn about our nationality. When I asked my mother what nationality I was she thought I was asking what Americans are called and so she told me (accurately) that I was an American.

Which makes perfect sense since I'm third generation American born on both sides of my family. All four grandparents were born here on American soil, my mother and father were and I certainly was. So I was an American.

But when I went to school, the teacher ripped me a new asshole because I was "wrong" and when I tried to defend my position I got my ass paddled for being obstinate.

Yes this was back in the day when teachers could legally employ corporal punishment in schools.

My mother was madder than hell when I tearfully explained why my ability to sit comfortably was impaired. She went to that school and verbally tore into that woman and the principal.

We had moved in the middle of the school year from one town to the neighboring town and my mother didn't want me to have to switch mid-year. She changed her mind and I found myself in a new school shortly after that incident.

But it's some weird cultural thing where we are not allowed to *be* Americans. We can be proud to be them, we can celebrate the American holidays, we can be a part of the American culture...but we can't BE Americans. Whenever someone asks...they honestly expect us to know our lineage back to middle ages at the very least and get snotty if you can't provide a rudimentary family tree.

And that's what pisses me off the most. The fact that I can't ignore my past. What if I was the descendant of the Himmler family line? What if Stalin was a side branch of my family? What if there are bits of my past I'm not proud of and the less said the better?

Nope...we have to have our family tree tattooed on our arms in the minds of a lot of people. They have a driving need to know who you are descended from or at the very least what country you came from.

And usually you get one of two responses. Either it's "Cool you're from..." or "Eww...you're one of those people. My people and your people used to fight each other TO THE DEATH!".

Now in my case I'm not ashamed to admit that I'm Irish on my father's side and Lithuanian on my mother's side. We're descended from poor folks who came to America for a chance at a better life like so many did at the turn of the century so there's nothing dark in our past.

But god damnit, regardless of what I evolved from...I'm a @#$%ing American and that's @#$%ing that.

[Ginger Tea]

My family tree is dull and boring from what little I know of it, all four grandparents were white and English so it comes as no shock for me to be the same.

There is another thread in sightings where an adopted friend is always talked to in one language or another without even finding out if that is indeed their language.
Funny, ive never been tempted to run up to a random white guy and just start speaking German cos even though I am not in Germany, there is a chance that, as there is an EFL school anyone within the vicinity of the school might be on their way too or from.
The EFL class is above a pub just outside of the Lion Yard shopping centre near the market, it is criss-crossed by many many tourist and shopping focal points even though the chances are high you would encounter a tourist, it's not a given that the bus load of tourists you ran up to to show off your GCSE level evening class German will have a sausage about what you are on about.

2 former co workers got together years ago and had a son if they stay in England he will probably identify more as English than either of his parents nationalities.
They gave him a name that was found in all three countries, although modified slightly in one, I have no idea if either parent is learning the others or if they just used the common ground of English like they did at work, so he might grow up bilingual or just know English and a smattering of Italian and Polish.

I think in England we kinda wipe out your heritage once you start being born in the country, at least from a white European and African standpoint, I worked with one guy who's grandfather or family moved during or after the war from Poland, he had no idea how to speak the language and even had trouble with his family name and everyone just called him Naz, he liked that more than being called by his first name.
If he ended up with a Polish co-worker who recognised his name as being Polish he would probably be a bit curt with them if they struck up a conversation in 'his mothers tongue' I'm sure he said his parents never learned to speak Polish, so that aspect of his family tree ended when his Grandfather settled.

Granted, when a whole family settles there is a strong chance that the children will be bilingual, but if it was just his grandfather, well unless his wife was up for learning Polish, they would probably be exposed to very little. And even if the parents are bilingual, they again might not be marrying into a Polish ExPat community.

I think ive posted about being caught as an unwilling bystander to a "Eww...you're one of those people. My people and your people used to fight each other TO THE DEATH!".
But this was not English born Africans discussing their family trees.
Although they themselves got themselves fired for fighting on the job, honestly they were pally with each other right till that point as both had claimed refugee status to escape the war back home.
But if they met 20 years later when their children are planning a wedding and meeting parents for the first time, the Son and Daughter probably wouldn't give a flying that 20 years prior both could have been on the same battlefield.

I don't think anyone ever grills African Americans for their ancestral heritage (except for Obama and the birth certificate nonsense) mostly due to slavery and not knowing or caring which county out of a dozen the latest boatload contained.
Probably the closest you can trace back to (unless you knew your ancestors moved to America long after slavery) is just what state you were first set to work on.

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[Kheldarson]

^Really? [edit- that was directed at Mongo Skruddgemire]

I always found it so weird that Americans can't just say they're American. I actually find it irritating sometimes when people say things like "I'm 80% German", how do they even come up with these numbers? I could never understand why people couldn't just claim the nationality of the country they were born in, and I don't know of any other country where it's so widespread.

My dad and his family are Australian, but that doesn't make me Australian- Irish.

It's because we're Heinz 57. Only we don't want to not know the ingredients that make us up :P

I had to do a family lineage project myself and found out that I'm...English, Irish, German, and a touch of Scottish. I laughed and asked why my genes hadn't torn themselves apart with the fighting :P

'Course...might be why I don't like beer...I can't make up my mind which style is better!

[Ginger Tea]

Oh I forgot Fudgethatkay's follow up about her mother, I personally would learn a phrase that belittles her mother and her views of learning another language.

There is nothing quite like standing there being evil and nasty about someone to their face in a foreign language whilst saying those words all sugar sweet.
I can't dick around this way cos English is too well known, but one co worker was learning Russian insults and I asked the Russian guy if he was learning what he thought he was, the guy was genuinely teaching him Russian swearing etc.
Myself I would want him to get into a bar fight and whilst brandishing a broken bottle scream out in Russian "I WANT TO GIVE YOU A BLOW JOB!" thinking he's saying I'm going to cut you you mother fucker.

Work kinda frowned on swearing at one point, but cos everyone swore in polish and got away with it, not even the polish supervisor scolding them, yet turning on me for saying fuck, I started throwing random Japanese words into the mix.
I don't think anyone expected to hear "Telephone number" sound so much like fucking cunt, but if I was bought ot task over it, I can sweetly say "what I said wasn't rude", to a Japanese speaker though (we had a 'retired' EFL teacher who had moved back from Japan to care for his mother over here who almost blew my cover) it would almost be like the scene from which ever scary movie parodied the Grudge.
"Honda Suzuki Mitsubishi?"

[mikoyan29]

I'm an American foremost. Both of my parents were born here. 3 of 4 Grandparents were born here and after that it gets a little tricky for my lineage. I think my Great Grandparents on my mom's mother's side were born here, I'm not sure about her dad's parents. I think they were born in Prussia but I'm not 100% sure on that. I know very little about my dad's parents. Like I said, his dad was born here and his mom wasn't. I'm pretty sure his dad's parents were born here too. As for my ancentry: Finnish, Prussian, French-Canadian and one of the British countries. Of those countries, I'm probably interested in Prussia the most as it has been absorbed into Poland and Germany and no longer exists. Even most of the city names have changed (Kaliningrad used to be Konigsberg, Gdansk used to be Danzig). I would love to go to Europe to find where that part of the family comes from.

Quite frankly, I think a bunch of this comes from the current immigration debate which is kind of funny since we are a nation of immigrants. Yes, we have 11,000,000 illegal (or undocumented) immigrants but it seems that it really hasn't been an issue or we would have done something about it much sooner. But then again, that's one of the problems with us, we never really address issues until they become serious issues and when we do, we come up with the worst solutions possible.

[Nekojin]

I'm American Mutt. My family name is French; my mother's maiden name is German. So it's safe to say that I've got those two bloodlines (so to speak) in my background somewhere. I also know that I've got some Irish from a paternal ancestor 4 generations removed, some Dutch from a maternal ancestor 4 generations removed, and I believe that my mother identified some Native American something-or-other six or so generations back.

I don't see why I need to identify myself with any other country, since everyone in my family tree that has been alive while I was, was born here.

[MrsEclipse]

I've never heard anyone else use the term "American mutt" before now to describe their lineage, but that't the term I've always used. The only nationalities I know for sure are my father's mother's father, who was a Greek immigrant who owned a bakery in Cleveland, my dad's grandfather's great-grandfather was English, and there is a story about him that ends in how we got our family name, and my mom's mom's grandfather was Cherokee. That only accounts for less than a fourth. I think there' some French, German, and Black Dutch filling in some of the gaps, but not 3/4ths worth. So really the only answer I can give is "American." If pressed for details, I'll have to say Mutt. No one's yet given me a hard time, but if they do I'll just sarcastically explain how America is its own country now and pople from all over the world come here.

[kaycivine]

Hey, guys, I'm fudgethatkay on the other part :]


When it comes to my mother, I actually do sometimes mumble under my breath. My best friend T, is from Japan, and sometimes, I'll just converse with him in front of my mother, because as nosy as she is, she cannot STAND to be in on a conversation.

Sometimes I'll talk about getting groceries but make my tone seem mean or annoyed and she'll say "QUIT TALKING ABOUT YOUR MOTHER"

To which we both crack up.
It feels good sometimes. But I had to train her since I left home. I won't acknowledge her now if she pulls that "ching chong crap" (My brother did in front of my Chinese friend...I almost killed him and refuse to let him meet my friends since)

AS FOR WHY PEOPLE ARE GETTING INTO KOREAN CULTURE;

In my personal experiences, its the girls looking at the cute guys in the boy bands. (Big Bang, SHINee, 2pm, etc.)

Korean dramas are huge in a lot of places too, lately.

But its kind of a setback. I've dealt with a lot of guys who wanted a "submissive" Asian girlfriend and only would learn the language for that, while the girls around me who "study" Japanese or Korean only did so because they wanted the fairytale happy ending of an anime/korean drama.

T is 23. I've had 14-year-old girls go after him the moment he says he is from Japan and ask if they could date them or if he could be their "Onii-chan" (Big brother)

My ex is Korean. He used to get messages from girls on groups talking about this stuff (we joined facebook groups about interracial couples)

The messages would say "OMG U LOOK LIKE KOREAN POPSTAR. CAN WE TALK/DATE/MEET UP"

He also got nudes from the "Pokemon" collectors as we call them. -.-; ughh Some of it was his fault but mostly, these girls sent them out too easily too.

Sorry, wayyy missed the point here. But I deal with that and I originally thought it was connected. >>;

[Ginger Tea]

Well I'm guilty of adding to the view count of 4minutre and F(X) videos, well less now I have them saved to my phone, but that would tell me Ready Go (4minute sung in Japanese) and Volume up (also 4minute but in Korean) have a healthy double digit play count, followed by F(X)'s songs Electric shock and Hot summer.
Ask me to pin a name to any of them outside of 4minutes Hyuna and F(X)'s Amber and I will draw a blank, 4minute have drastic costume and hair changes between videos (some times the same video) at first I thought they had replaced a few of the members in between video shoots.

We don't have any evening classes for Korean, but when I did the 10 week beginners Japanese one a few years ago (almost gave it up cos I ended up close to being late too many times due to a new shift rota that was teething), I could get a book and study at home, but I would find myself drifting onto something else so I felt I needed a class to focus me, but sadly 10 weeks was all they had, there we had few wanting to go to Japan, it's been a while, but the ones I remember were the ones that were into Anime.
I fell off the Anime bandwagon long before it got saturated (I believe it's better now, but the old crap I enjoyed on VHS is not on DVD in the UK), I was more of a live action sub fan, dubbing live action is a hard thing to do, but I grew up with dubbed anime not knowing it was Japanese cos it was just a TV show in the 80's, but once Manga entertainment brought out releases I recognised the art style.

I'm a bit on the fence about people actively seeking out partners from other cultures, part of me says "well I find Japanese, Korean and Chinese women just as cute, plain or odd looking as I do European's, their country is not full of super hot women, it's just as mixed as mine, but you don't see the Pat Butchers of the world being exported unless they are a background character in a drama or a film.
As with Hollywood, pretty trumps.
But I am a bit skeeved out by those that seek out X in a relationship because of their skewed perception of the populace due to media.
I have a few turn offs, but I would not spur an attractive woman because she wasn't Korean and only a Korean could sate my appetites.

When I first started working at my old job we had 5 or 6 Chinese employees (as in actually from China not British) and when the women spoke to the men at break (never did find out if either were in a relationship, cos it wasn't any of my business) it always sounded like nagging.
She could be talking dirty to him for all I knew, but the tone of her voice was always coming across as displeasing, mind you it didn't help we had a woman and her two children from the Philippians living in the attic with her English husband and although they all spoke English to each other, she only spoke her language (Talagog I think) when she was scolding them.

So I could not treat Chinese as a sexy language to listen to.
Mind you most of the Polish women spoke deeper than the men too.

I watched a Korean Ghost story and one woman (in her 50's I guess) said a word and it sounded like she was about to let loose with a great big groz it made me regret wearing headphones, though not as much as Rolf Harris' cover of walk on the wild side when he did his trademark himheher thing, it was only the length of the cable that stopped my headphones hitting the wall and breaking.

edit:
Months ago a website (I think it was a side bar story from a hot topic posted here at one point) had an article about the top 10 things about Japan that are wrong or misrepresented to some extent.
Yes Anime and Manga originated there, but it holds just as big or bigger stigmata than being a fan in America, cos play does happen, but not everywhere, normally a set district and dates, not wherever you damn well please etc.
I think there was a YouTube video or I ended up there to some woman's page, she was at one point living there and either still is with her Japanese boyfriend/husband or back in America with him.
She had some similar videos about what to expect on arrival, some good traveling tips for those still listening to the phrase book CD on the flight etc, the links are on my old dead pc so I cant link to her without putting the drive in my USB gizmo, yet YouTube comments being YouTube comments, she was given grief for not knowing what it's like living there, that the real Tokyo is not like the Tokyo of the Anime men can be just as big a dick as any other country, she just happened to find a 'nice guy', but even having a Japanese partner didn't stop the comments about how all Japanese men are like X in Y show etc.

Edit: was having a quick search and found this name "KawaiiKekeChan07" the name alone has me cringing and not wanting to check out her info about living abroad, she reminded me facial wise at least of a buxom vlogger who was either in an import store or was in Japan buying food, she was picking up products and talking about them and how they were so good and I looked at some and thought "Yeah that's just X but in a Japanese box" and I'm now reminded of the time Captain Dickhead asked if I had ever eaten Ferogi a Polish or Lithuanian pasta thing, after some talking about it, I think it ended up being something along the lines of Ravioli, but it was the Polish word for it. (chalked it up to a Nehoddy moment, in joke)

Edit:
Although the name is almost as bad as the other one this video I recall seeing and also links the cracked article and has the other woman I was on about as a side bar.

[crashhelmet]

When people ask my heritage, I'm Mexican-Irish. My mother's family is predominantly Mexican, but there is a little Austrian and Castillian/Spanish a few generations back. My grandfather was the first on my mom's side of the family born in the US.

On my dad's side, his dad was the first of his family born in the US after immigrating from Ireland. My grandmother was second generation US born, again from Ireland.

My last name, however, is one of those professional names. While genealogy reports say it's either Scottish or German in its roots, we don't have any records of our family tree prior to Ireland. It is unknown if anyone immigrated there or were given the name because of what they did.

*EDIT*
I forgot to add...
My grandfather hated to be called Mexican. He was proud to be born in the US, to have fought for the US, and to have contributed to the communities he lived in up until the day he died. He was very respectful and proud of his heritage though.

[Andara Bledin]

If I really want to confuse people, I could tell them I'm Mongolian American.... >_>

However, since the most anything I am is Finn, and that's only a quarter, and I know nothing about the culture since when my great grandparents moved to America they became Americans, I'd have to say I'm just American.

[Ginger Tea]

T is 23. I've had 14-year-old girls go after him the moment he says he is from Japan and ask if they could date them or if he could be their "Onii-chan" (Big brother)

I watched a fan sub of a Korean movie, I only know it was Korean cos I recognised the writing, wouldn't be able to tell you what it meant mind, it's just that it is visually different from Japanese and Chinese, but not sure about Thai etc.

At first I thought there was a boy and his two sisters cos one of the women called him big brother yet also lived with her sister, it got a bit weird when it turned out her sister and him had broken up or had some misunderstanding (they didn't translate all the text messages or even say who they were from).

So is this Onii-chan a Japanese thing or is it Western, taking a word and slapping -chan at the end regardless of it's context being correct or not.

I felt the fan translation was lacking in many ways and could possibly have had over used phrases slapped onto the screen because they had become so over used that it seemed odd for them to have dialogue without them.

Nothing says professional like having =^.^= come up on screen when a character sighed, this happened at least twice, mind you it's to be expected when the movie was called d0nt cl!ck or some other l337 spelling.
I might watch it again if I find it on DVD with a proper Korean translation and not someone who might have spent too long mashing up the two languages and then spitting out a semi coherent end result.

[Andara Bledin]

It's very common in Asian and Middle-Eastern languages to have additions or replacements for both names and pronouns and even verbs to indicate levels of relationship. Class relationship and explicit respect for elders and superiors is very important to many older cultures.

Newer cultures and those with more democratic and less spiritual societies tend to eschew titles but for those that denote accomplishment (Dr, Esq, etc) or are merely signs of formal and respectful address (Mr, Mrs, sir, etc).

It's not uncommon pretty much globally for those who are not technically part of a family to be referred to using terms that indicate otherwise. An example from the Murder She Wrote tv show was that the main character was often called "Aunt Jessica" despite not being related to most of the other characters. The degree to which this happens varies greatly, even within a single culture.