racism in reverse

[Rubystars]

Here's my perspective on it, it was originally a group of Middle Eastern people, descended from the same ancestry and sharing a common religion.

If not exactly a race to some degree it is an ethnicity, although converts who were Gentile-descended are accepted as officially Jewish afterward.

[Rapscallion]

Hmm - I could be wrong, but a Gentile can only become a Reform Jew, not an Orthodox Jew. I think, and I repeat that I could be wrong, that Orthodox Judaism teaches that only those born from the twelve tribes, traced through their mothers, can be Jews.

Anyone got more information on this?

Rapscallion

[Ryu]

thats true, at least it was, not sure if it still is
it was for a long time you could only be jewish if you were born jewish except there were exceptions in the Old Testament so i dont know if it was established later or had ended by then or they were exceptions

[Rubystars]

Ruth in the Old Testament converted to Judaism and she was a Moabitess.

This page seems to indicate that the Orthodox do accept Gentile converts: http://www.beingjewish.com/conversio...ingjewish.html

[Ryu]

thats why i said there were exceptions in the old testament, i was mainly thinking of her
i know at some point, i dont know when or for how long, it was the common view that you could only be jewish by blood which is what my message said adding that i didnt know if it was different today

[Rubystars]

I've asked some of them about it before and they said that even though they don't seek converts and discourage conversion that they do accept converts today from all peoples.

[squall]

According to the Bible, it says a Christian's duty is to actively seek converts. Does not mean it's any less annoying when they bug you at your place of employment.

[Rubystars]

It's a Christian's duty to actively seek converts, but Jewish people don't seek converts. Quite the opposite in fact. They're supposed to discourage people from converting, although they do accept converts if someone is persistent and willing enough.

[Barefootgirl]

Can you imagine the horror and the outrage, if there were ever to be a "White History Month"? Yes, we celebrate dead (white) presidents, but can you imagine a month dedicated to important people in "White" history?

Obviously i can't speak for the way these things are taught in the USA, but in the UK, conventional history as its taught in school IS "white history", simply because there were not that many prominent black people in the UK before the middle of the 20th century. It's also "men's history" - aside from the odd Queen or three, the canon simply doesn't mention that many famous women. Again, I don't know about the US, but in the UK we do have "Women's History" events, emphasising the contribution women made to our society. It doesn't denigrate the canon in any way, shape or form, it enhances it. White people's history IS the canon, its what everybody learns, its generic history, so there is little need for a specific event celebrating it.

Being proud of your race, whatever it is, always seems a bit odd to me. Its not like its an achievement, is it?

[DisgruntledBadger]

We're agreed, it seems, that reverse racism is just as bad as the standard sort, but what do we do about it?

Rapscallion

It seems to me that that's the crux of the problem where any sort of racism is concerned. A lot of the "affirmative action" and quota policies were put into place to try to combat racism, and they quite obviously have not worked. There's got to be a way to get rid of discrimination against one group without causing discrimination against another, right?

[powerboy]

All I can say to people is it is not a crime to be proud of your race. I am proud of who I am, where I came from, and who I am growing up to be. Just because I am proud to be white does NOT make me a Neo Nazi or a Hitler fanatic or a racist. If it's ok to be proud to be black, I can be proud to be white without being criticized and labeled.

I think the same way about it. I am proud to be white, and I am not a racist

I grew up in the 80s and 90s and I was never part of apartheid or slavery or anything stupid like that. I never oppressed anyone and I don't feel ashamed about things that had nothing to do with me. Yet I'm being affected by affirmative action, etc.

I don't understand why I don't get the equal opportunity for scholarships or for hiring or for promotions because I don't help "diversity" but lessen it.

There are many achievements that can be attributed mostly or solely to white people just as there are those discoveries/achievements, etc. that can be attributed to black people or Asian people or whoever. Furthermore, white people suffered as serfs and slaves too, does anyone remember reading about that?

Maybe we need white history month for that reason anyway.

I feel the same way as you on that.

[TennesseeWhiskey]

I grew up in the 80s and 90s and I was never part of apartheid or slavery or anything stupid like that. I never oppressed anyone and I don't feel ashamed about things that had nothing to do with me. Yet I'm being affected by affirmative action, etc.

Oh honey, you're preaching to the choir on this one. Try growing up in the 70's and '80's, a Tennessean with a strong accent, and, inevitably something goes wrong for a customer who is just DETERMINED to get over, not pay, get something for nothing, not be charged a service bill for something THEY tore up, and, the first thing that gets brought up is, "You just beez doing me like dat 'cause I be black."

Nope, sorry to bust your bubble, honey, I couldn't care less if you were pink with purple polka dots, you break it, you pay to fix it, right there in your agreement, just like the clause about professional behaviour, siccing your dogs on my guy when he knocks on the door to find out why you haven't paid isn't quite what your average reasonable man/woman on the street considers normal behaviour. Nor is threatening to "beat up that m-f-ing cracka if dey calls me up on my m-f-ing job again" after having tried to contact you for two or three weeks, every other way than calling your job.


Now, I'm NOT trying to say that only black people show off when you call bull excrement on them for bad behaviour, but, they will sure enough holler discrimination when there ain't any. Fortunately, we're not in a huge area, and, I've more than one time seen another customer, black, by the way, laugh at the dingleberry hollering "discrimination", and tell them, "Aw, hush, if you were doing what you were supposed to be, they wouldn't have to call you. They're good people, and you're acting a fool."

Don't even get me going about the mess about slavery. Sorry, dude, it ended in the USA in 1865. Neither of us was alive then, yeah, it was bad, nope, it don't affect us, and my give-a-damn's busted.

[AFPheonix]

OK. I've kept out of this thread until now, but I'm sorry, slavery in the US may have officially ended in 1865, but institutionalized racism and Jim Crow continued unchecked into the 1960's. You can't tell me that this has had no effect on black peoples' ability to move up in society at the rate that white people can. The very fact that blacks make up a huge segment of the lower classes is very telling in that regard.

As for white guys whining that they can't say Nigger but black guys can. Oh please. You as a white male are in a demographic that holds the most power in this world.

Is it right when minorities strike out at the majority? No, of course not, but what do you think has been the larger injustice overall? Minorities striking out, or the majority holding down up until this most recent generation? My vote will be on the latter. As a white female, I will suck it up and deal, as I understand we're still in a period of transition and most likely will be for several generations.

As for being proud of your skin color, well, I just don't really understand that. Why are you proud of something that you really had no hand in doing? I don't care one way or another what color I am, but I will reserve my pride for things that I actually affected in a positive manner.

[Boozy]

Thanks AFP, for articulating my thoughts on the subject. I would have responded myself, except that every time I started, I felt I came across too...vehemently, to put it nicely.

So I stayed away from this one up until now.

I did like Barefootgirl's point about being "proud" of your race. It is an accident of birth and nothing you've achieved. Like nationalism, this kind of attitude is at best silly and at worst, dangerous.

[TennesseeWhiskey]

OK. I've kept out of this thread until now, but I'm sorry, slavery in the US may have officially ended in 1865, but institutionalized racism and Jim Crow continued unchecked into the 1960's. You can't tell me that this has had no effect on black peoples' ability to move up in society at the rate that white people can. The very fact that blacks make up a huge segment of the lower classes is very telling in that regard.

Will I say Jim Crow had no effect? Nope. I won't say that at all. Jim Crow's been outlawed for many years now. All of us here, my age (mid-late 30's and younger) went to non-segregated schools, teachers taught, and continue to teach, white and black kids from the same books on the same subjects, in the same classrooms!


There comes a time when you need to quit blaming everybody else and look to your own to see the problems. Am I saying white folks are perfect? Naw, we have our own problems, but, do we try and collectively blame other races and this, that and the other? Nope, not for the most part, sure, there's a few out there who will holler about the (insert ethnicity here) taking over, etc, so on and so forth, but, that ain't the majority.

I'm speaking as a white Southern female. Why is it bad to be proud of your roots and where you come from? Quite often, it can inspire you.

As for white guys whining that they can't say Nigger but black guys can. Oh please. You as a white male are in a demographic that holds the most power in this world.

Frankly, I don't really give an aviating copulation about the usage of that word one way or another. What burns my biscuits is that if a white person says "nigger" in whatever context, it's about as bad as being accused of witchcraft back in Salem Mass in 1692 or so, however, it's okay to call a white person everything but a child of God because of discrimination, etcetera, ad infinitum. The way I look at that, it ought to go both ways. Fine, don't call any black person a nigger, but, don't call white people cracker, white trash, buckra, trailer trash, etc.